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Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by kristopolous on Thursday June 27, 2019 @06:14AM (#20293094)
These were generally called metaweb tech when they were popular about 15-20 years ago.

The problem was that everyone had to have a particular author's plugin to see the extra content.

Some of them were better than others, allowing cross referencing, citation insertion, and a number of other sophisticated features.

I don't know if they still are around.

Sites like reddit and hn are really inverted versions of this concept, fixing the basic problem that most sites don't have commentary.

What may be an interesting hybrid is to search the commentary aggregators when you land on a site and then show the hn/digg/whatever comments and permit replying if the credentials are known

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by toyg on Thursday June 27, 2019 @06:28AM (#20293180)
Yeah, this has been tried over and over. Unless it becomes a standard browser feature (and decentralized, e.g. dht-backed), it's always been a nonstarter for technical reasons alone.

Also, if you start from an anti-censorship anti-moderation position, in this day and age, you are likely to attract the worst of society right off the bat.

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by mehdix on Thursday June 27, 2019 @09:39AM (#20294212)
The technical problem here is way easier to solve than the social one. You'd want to avoid having hatespeech or some attack being planned on URLs of your blog. This is by definition a tricky problem. Should moderation follow us to the remotest and most deserted corners of the web? Should prying eyes follow humans all the time, even on this abstract ocean of digital content? On technical side I think we'd need some sort of widespread micropayment mechanism baked into major browsers or at least Firefox. Then decentralized commenting solutions will follow.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by pmarreck on Thursday June 27, 2019 @12:19PM (#20295861)
> You'd want to avoid having hatespeech

I have zero confidence in automated hatespeech blocking ever since I had comments blocked multiple times for fighting racists with reason (which is, honestly, the only way it will be eliminated, just like it worked against homophobia and interracial marriage... I wonder how long it will take before we realize that if you ban it, you martyr it, and you merely send it off to fester on some darkweb somewhere)

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by comntr on Thursday June 27, 2019 @11:32PM (#20301265)
I think there should be many data servers with different rules. Some will blindly accept and serve any comments. Some will have mods and a buffer of comments waiting for review. Some will review only those comments that are flagged by their scripts. All these data servers should form a well connected network and exchange with comments. What's the incentive to exchange with comments? If a greedy data server refuses to give comments, others will block it. And users will be able to have multiple data sources, if (when) one big data server tries to use its monopoly power.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by Fnoord on Friday June 28, 2019 @05:15AM (#20302675)
> the only way it will be eliminated, just like it worked against homophobia and interracial marriage

Homophobia has been eliminated? Since when?

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by pmarreck on Sunday June 30, 2019 @12:53PM (#20319099)
Well, gay marriage has been legalized at least, so that's a start
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by WindowsFon4life on Thursday June 27, 2019 @04:17PM (#20298254)
Hate is a transitive verb.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by apostacy on Thursday June 27, 2019 @01:08PM (#20296358)
> You'd want to avoid having hatespeech or some attack being planned on URLs of your blog.

How could you possibly expect to control people saying things about your blog on a remote webserver?

There is no solution that is not worse than the speech.

This is not a problem that needs solving.

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by brokenmachine on Thursday June 27, 2019 @09:11PM (#20300627)
There was an interesting decentralized project that I found out about here on hn that has an interesting solution to that.

It's called Aether, and it only supports text. Each node stores 6 months of all posts. Every person votes for their own moderators of communities so you can basically choose your own moderation filter that you get.

I didn't personally like the idea that it has amnesia after 6 months, but surely eventually clients would support saving your own threads to keep locally.

So you could subscribe to your own trusted adblocking/flagging list.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18370208

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by manifestsilence on Thursday June 27, 2019 @05:23PM (#20298913)
Then the problem instead becomes what is a valid comment, and a valid commenter (identity). Otherwise the vast majority of comments will be: WaNt A BiGgEr SoMeThInG? Go tO wWw.S0mEgR0$$sItE.cOm
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by comntr on Thursday June 27, 2019 @11:26PM (#20301234)
There should be at least basic formatting filter that would block 1 MB comments or clearly non human written comments. This won't stop the spammers, of course. It should be time consuming to create a user id. It should be anonymous, but it should take a few minutes of your time (not your CPU time) to generate a valid user id. once this is done, it'll be easy to spot one spammer's comment, find all others (since comments are signed with ed25519) and dump them all. The spammers then won't be able to delegate the work to scripts.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by mottosso on Thursday June 27, 2019 @05:31PM (#20299014)
I do want a bigger something! Sign me up!
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by mehdix on Friday June 28, 2019 @07:06AM (#20303123)
> How could you possibly expect to control people saying things about your blog on a remote webserver?

You're right. My point would make sense only in case of an opt-in solution.

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by solstice on Thursday June 27, 2019 @10:36AM (#20294742)
(Re: micropayments) Sigh... Flattr seemed so promising back in 2011.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by comntr on Thursday June 27, 2019 @11:27PM (#20301246)
Data is the payment.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by mehdix on Friday June 28, 2019 @07:00AM (#20303100)
How one would actually pay their server bills with data except by selling that to third parties [replace with your favorite agency]?
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by comntr on Friday June 28, 2019 @07:14AM (#20303169)
I'd expect some ML stuff, like training some models, etc. Such comments in raw form hardly have much value. What adtech usually pays for is data pinned to user ids.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by Spivak on Thursday June 27, 2019 @09:55AM (#20294349)
The various meta-web providers are already decentralized. Given that the value of CommentSection-aaS is curation there's really not much value in federated accounts outside of the baseline "woudldn't it be nice if everything..."

Censorship resistance doesn't necessarily attract the worst type of people although the phrase is has become a synonym for anti-moderation among certain crowds.

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by rtpg on Thursday June 27, 2019 @06:53AM (#20293290)
I wrote a chrome extension that went the opposite direction: hit the extension button and you would get a list of hacker news and reddit submissions for that URL. Was super useful for finding some cool comments on a page

I’ve since moved to Firefox and gave up on the extension, but it might be an easy port...

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by syx on Thursday June 27, 2019 @07:56AM (#20293606)
you just described exactly what I've done a year ago [1] I always promised myself to rewrite it for Firefox but was too lazy.

[1] https://github.com/syxanash/commentdat

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by gitgud on Thursday June 27, 2019 @08:42AM (#20293855)
Same as the [1] extension I wrote last year. Firefox was easier to incorporate than I thought though, the API is almost identical.

[1] https://newsit.benwinding.com/

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by MetallicKat on Thursday June 27, 2019 @11:53AM (#20295531)
This is nice. Exactly what I am looking for!
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by the_duke on Thursday June 27, 2019 @08:31AM (#20293806)
FYI: converting a Chrome to a FF extension is easy to do now.

They are mostly the same, and Firefox has a compatibility library that stubs most of the incompatibilities.

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by comntr on Thursday June 27, 2019 @01:16PM (#20296452)
Yep, I didn't have to do much other then doing if(chrome.contextMenus){...} to make this extension run on Firefox and Firefox Android. But I intentionally chose the <iframe> approach to minimise the browser-dependent surface, so the <iframe> draws the UI and the extension only makes a few basic things like updating the icon color.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by tetizera on Thursday June 27, 2019 @08:05AM (#20293660)
I'd love to have this extension! Let us know if you ever pick up that extension. I do have one question though. Links on e-mails usually have "?utm_campaign=id_campaign&utm_source=nytimes" for example. Is it possible to avoid duplicates? To this day this is one of the major headaches for mods on Reddit. There's also the mobile links for the same news article.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by syx on Thursday June 27, 2019 @08:12AM (#20293701)
This was more of a kludge than a serious project, but glad I was not the only one to find this useful, will definitley continue working on it.

>Is it possible to avoid duplicates?

I thought about this as well in the past but never actually found a solution. Maybe someone here knows if there's research or an algorithm to uniquely identify the URL.

Edit: typos

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by 333c on Thursday June 27, 2019 @01:29PM (#20296594)
Some pages will link to a canonical URL in the head: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_link_element
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by weaksauce on Thursday June 27, 2019 @11:33AM (#20295327)
Stripping out the query string probably works for 80%(maybe even more) of the sites. Maybe that by default and then an option to search for the whole url as a fallback?
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by ekzy on Thursday June 27, 2019 @05:06PM (#20298757)
I wrote a similar extension too! Looks like we all had the same idea

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-lookup...

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by Jaruzel on Thursday June 27, 2019 @09:44AM (#20294253)
You might be able to do with just a bookmarklet into the algolia search for HN.

EDIT: I've just created a proof of concept that works:

http://www.jaruzel.com/apps/hnlookup/

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by comntr on Thursday June 27, 2019 @11:41PM (#20301295)
So it effectively runs arbitrary javascript in the current page? I mean, if I run it on my online banking page, it'll have access to everything. The extension isn't ideal either - access to the current URL is too much - but at least it can't run arbitrary JS in the page itself.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by Jaruzel on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @03:38AM (#20333011)
If you look at the bookmarklet, you'll see that the JS in it only fetches the URL and appends it to an Algolia search query. Nothing is sent to any other server. It's all done in your browser. Hacker News has exactly the same type of bookmarklet on their 'bookmarklet' link at the bottom of every page[1]. Arguably this method is safer than an Extension.

---

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/bookmarklet.html

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by air7 on Thursday June 27, 2019 @07:11AM (#20293382)
Firefox extensions are nowadays (since Quantum) web-extensions and are almost identical to chrome's so porting should be quite simple.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by floatingatoll on Thursday June 27, 2019 @03:50PM (#20297937)
Is solving this "basic problem" ethical?

The implied assumption here is that it's a "basic problem" that most sites do not have a readily-discoverable public commentary board.

Sites such as Reddit, HN, and Facebook are popular, readily-discoverable public commentary boards about other sites. This much is true. However, it is incorrect to say that the absence of this is a "basic problem" as stated above. Given the past few years* of events and discoveries about the human impacts of these public comment boards, it may be that we incorrectly solved a "problem" that turned out to be a feature keeping humanity from harming itself with its own speech.

* three examples, cited by paraphrase: "speech encouraging harm to others"; "coordinated worldwide attacks upon individuals"; "like counts may do psychological harm"

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by comntr on Friday June 28, 2019 @12:12AM (#20301409)
No, I agree that this problem has to be solved before this idea can hope to get wide adoption. Mr A posts something really evil on Mr B's facebook page. What happens next? Mr B files a complaint to facebook. Since this is a legal matter, the complaint gets escalated to the top. FB realises that this is out of their control and proceeds with a complaint to FBI. Now what if the data server with that comment is hosted outside the US? Right, the browsers will quickly ban this extension. However the owner of the extension can also change the default data server url in the config and the comment will be gone.

However I think that this hypothetical scenario will never happen because the idea will never reach this wide adoption. It'll inevitably be fragmented into a few segments with rules and moderation. Want comments from the theoretical physicist community? Subscribe to sci.data.org in your extension config. Want to know what 4chan folks think? Add unfiltered.comments.com to your config - it'll be an unreadable mess anyway and you'll need to make some non-trivial effort to add that url.

But I think there will be an archive with all the comments for research purposes: physically, it will be a big data server that keeps connections with all other data servers and pulls all the comments it can.

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by kazinator on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:05AM (#20301875)
> Right, the browsers will quickly ban this extension.

How is an open source browser going to ban an extension that throngs of people want?

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by comntr on Friday June 28, 2019 @11:20PM (#20310626)
Easily. Open source merely means that the source can be seen by anyone. It doesn't mean that readers of the source have any say in how to run the browser.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by closeparen on Sunday June 30, 2019 @12:30PM (#20318982)
It means a user can comment out the parts they don’t like and publish their fork for like minded users to switch to.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by brokenmachine on Thursday June 27, 2019 @09:25PM (#20300696)
The printing press has also been nothing but trouble.
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by floatingatoll on Thursday June 27, 2019 @09:30PM (#20300723)
The printing press has nothing inherently to do with worldwide instantaneous coordinated global same-day information sharing. A better analogy here would have been the telegraph, as that would at least serve as evidence on its own a rudimentary connection to whatever pithy point you’re trying to make with this reply. Unfortunately, your chosen example does not connect the dots so readily. Please clarify?
Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by brokenmachine on Thursday June 27, 2019 @11:41PM (#20301294)
>it may be that we incorrectly solved a "problem" that turned out to be a feature keeping humanity from harming itself with its own speech

OK. Explaining ruins the humor but I'll explain.

The pithy point I was making is that a bunch of words on a comment thread is not likely to harm humanity any more than the printing press did.

Or the writing on a toilet stall wall for that matter, now that I think about it.

The larger point I was alluding to is that the people who would call for the banning of text from a printing press are probably the people we should really be worried about.

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by floatingatoll on Saturday June 29, 2019 @03:31PM (#20314312)
Should anyone be permitted to skywrite anything they want on the sky?

Free speech says “yes”, but if you find a way to stably write sentences on the sky, you will quickly discover that the majority of people do not agree that free speech applies to writing in the sky.

There’s a nuance that we as tech haven’t explored properly between “you have the right to speak unhindered by the government” and “you have the right to impose your speech upon an unwilling audience”, which relates to why street speech generally can’t use PAs or bullhorns without triggering a local government response. Similarly, this is why coordinated protests must be super careful to block their rowdier elements.

Setting up a system of global commentary that “grafts”, “appends”, “overlays”, “applies” a collection of third-party uncontrolled speech onto a non-consenting website — so, literally, the addon linked by this post — could very well be considered “coordinating and imposing your speech on an unwilling audience”. This, then, is the ethical and social policy question.

Does this addon hinder free speech by encouraging and enabling unwanted, uncontrolled speech to be inserted into - using DOM overlays or browser sidebars - someone else’s controlled private forum?

For whatever reason, tech in general seems absolutely terrified to consider this question. I suspect that’s partly because it is a nuanced consideration that violates two popular tech precepts:

1) “uncontrolled speech is an inalienable right”

2) “anything that can be done technically must be permitted to be done”

Neither of those principles is true in general society, and so I hope someday tech confronts this dissonance and resolves it - rather than simply pretending that “this addon isn’t illegal” is sufficient to defend ignoring the wider ethical issues of its effects.

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by brokenmachine on Sunday June 30, 2019 @07:56PM (#20321364)
It's a separate website that discusses content on another website. You have to explicitly opt-in by going to a separate site to read it.

It's ridiculous to consider that to be "imposing your speech on an unwilling audience".

Your sky writing argument is also ridiculous as the difference between sky writing and a website should be obvious. The internet is not the real world.

You are being illogical and I'm done explaining.

Re:Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL by kazinator on Friday June 28, 2019 @01:55AM (#20301833)
The basic problem is that sites that do have a commentary board control the content; they delete what they don't like.