News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by bin0 on Sunday June 23, 2019 @12:55PM (#20256850)
Cattle likely won't change. I'm going to keep eating meat. And deforestation may not change due to exploding population. However, that doesn't mean we can't capture carbon. I've seen numerous promising business ideas to capture carbon and convert it into useful materials; I think it's more feasible to do that than to force veganism on every one.
Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by valw on Sunday June 23, 2019 @01:17PM (#20257047)
> I've seen numerous promising business ideas to capture carbon and convert it into useful materials; I think it's more feasible to do that than to force veganism on every one.

Yeah, we've all seen them - they make for fantastic headlines. None of them is as viable as protecting forests / planting trees by a long shot. They systematically fail to mention that the energy consumption is super high or that they're not scalable in another way - at least not in time.

> Cattle likely won't change. I'm going to keep eating meat [...] more feasible to do that than to force veganism on every one.

You don't need everyone to go vegan - we only need people to eat a lot less meat and diaries, and / or choose meat with a smaller footprint (e.g chicken). It's simply not reasonable to use 40% of arable lands to feed cattle given the environmental and food challenges of the 21st century.

If you're not willing to make the relatively small lifestyle change that is changing your diet, then let me tell you with blunt honesty: you're an instance of the most severe cause of climate change - privileged people not willing to give up on some of their comfort. This attitude is also collectively irrational, because climate change if not prevented will force us to much more radical lifestyle changes. I do hope you will reconsider.

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by jodrellblank on Sunday June 23, 2019 @01:31PM (#20257179)
60% of America is overweight or obese, and America throws out enough food to feed .. a lot of people, every day. Shame me for eating meat when you stop them from overeating food full stop - and all the farm machinery and transport and packaging involved in that.

I don't have children, I don't drive them to school in a SUV or to a holiday in DisneyWorld, I have never launched a SpaceX rocket, or lived on my own in a full size house. I have never been on a cruise. I don't live or work in an air-conditioned place.

To put it bluntly, f' off about calling people "the most severe cause of climate change" for eating a beef sandwich without considering anything else. It's unhelpful, provocative, and completely incorrect.

I didn't attend an international destination wedding this year, which a lot of my family did. How many bacon sandwiches does that earn me compared to my family?

If your answer is none because climate change is a global catastrophe and everyone has to pitch in, then what incentive does that give anyone? If any carbon slack of my reduced comfort is just getting eaten up by other people's indifference, aren't I better off being indifferent as well?

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by dantondwa on Sunday June 23, 2019 @04:19PM (#20258402)
Yeah, I agree with what you are saying. This approach has put all the responsibility on the individual and has comfortably concealed the fact that a problem of this scale must be approached from above and in a systemic way. Yes, individuals can make a difference, in mass. So can laws that force them to act in a certain way and laws which actually touch the interests of the big polluters. Making the powerless majority feel guilty about their insignificant choices is not the solution, and it is just a way to not face the responsability of the big and influential culprits.
Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by valw on Sunday June 23, 2019 @02:09PM (#20257512)
> f' off about calling people "the most severe cause of climate change" for eating a beef sandwich without considering anything else. It's unhelpful, provocative, and completely incorrect.

That's an entire mischaracterization of my argument, which was about willingness to change one's lifestyle in general, not specifically about eating a beef sandwich.

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by jodrellblank on Sunday June 23, 2019 @08:33PM (#20259627)
As in recent headline, Carnival Cruise Lines emit more pollution than all the cars in Europe[1].

Ten times more.

And I'm "with blunt honesty: an instance of the most severe cause of climate change"?

No. Just so much no.

[1] https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/news-opinion/carnival...

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by bin0 on Sunday June 23, 2019 @01:33PM (#20257195)
> privileged people

I don't eat a ton of beef, but no, beef is relatively affordable (at least in America). But I do eat a lot more chicken, and not a ton of beef. With that said, I want a good steak once every few months and a burger once a week. More importantly, I don't want the government saying "thou shalt" about my beef consumption, nor do I want people finger-wagging at me about it.

America can sustainably raise cattle. She has requisite land. It seems that people are saying that because everyone else can't do it, we need to change.

This is also the tragedy of the commons. If I emit less, others will feel they can emit more. I refuse to be "the sucker" that loses this game theory problem. With that said, I don't emit that much (all things considered). My biggest carbon outputs are driving (which I have to do) and air conditioning (I will not give this up; come live in hundred-degree Texas summers without it and then tell me to give it up). So I don't consider myself to be a catastrophic contributor to any thing. Besides, would money not be better spent curing cancer? I'm not sure that I believe the "impending doom" stuff about global warming. Humans are the most remarkably adaptable species on the planet; we will adapt to a hotter earth if need be.

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by richk449 on Sunday June 23, 2019 @04:27PM (#20258453)
> This is also the tragedy of the commons. If I emit less, others will feel they can emit more. I refuse to be "the sucker" that loses this game theory problem.

The whole point in the tragedy of the commons is that if everyone follows their own self interest (as you are doing) then everyone loses. That is why it is called a tragedy.

Saying you are going to avoid losing by taking what you want completely misunderstands what the problem is.

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by stordoff on Sunday June 23, 2019 @05:17PM (#20258735)
> come live in hundred-degree Texas summers without it and then tell me to give [air-con] up [...] we will adapt to a hotter earth if need be

Are you sure about that? It seems like we'd adapt by using more power, deepening the problem.

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by dorgo on Sunday June 23, 2019 @05:54PM (#20258917)
> It seems like we'd adapt by using more power, deepening the problem.

Not if it is solar/wind power as is the case for 50% of the power already (in my country). With 100% renewables you can waste as much energy as you like.

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by valw on Sunday June 23, 2019 @01:57PM (#20257404)
> With that said, I don't emit that much (all things considered)

Cool, how much? IIRC, sustainability would require an individual average below 2 teqCO2/year.

> Besides, would money not be better spent curing cancer?

Look at what the world would look like if climate change is not prevented: https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will-look-l.... Think of the consequences in famines (whole countries transformed into deserts), flooding, and the mass migrations and wars that would ensue. So no, cancer is not the priority, not when people will die by the hundreds of millions before reaching the age for getting cancer.

> I'm not sure that I believe the "impending doom" stuff about global warming.

Then you are in denial, and need to be exposed to more science. Again, sorry for being blunt.

> Humans are the most remarkably adaptable species on the planet; we will adapt to a hotter earth if need be.

Yeah sure, we can't individually give up on our beef sandwich, but we will have no problem adapting collectively to most of our current living spaces becoming uninhabitable.

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by dang on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @02:48AM (#20271720)
You repeatedly crossed into personal attack in this thread. That's not ok, regardless of how right you are. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended when posting here?
Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by dorgo on Sunday June 23, 2019 @05:49PM (#20258893)
> https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will-look-l....

I could not see any graphics/media (the website is a mess. It tries to load a dozen 3rd party resources). But the article is pretty optimistic:

> Now is the time to buy property in Greenland – before it too turns green...

> Yeah sure, we can't individually give up on our beef sandwich

I'm sure there will be cities in these new deserts. And people in these cities will still eat beef sandwiches.

If somebody talks like that, my impression is always that it's more about restriction and reduction than about saving the world.

> Cool, how much? IIRC, sustainability would require an individual average below 2 teqCO2/year.

Cool, is there a CO2 calculator somewhere?

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by bin0 on Sunday June 23, 2019 @06:16PM (#20259030)
Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by dorgo on Sunday June 23, 2019 @06:51PM (#20259241)
I found one with metric measurements. I consume about 12 tons Co2 per year. Is a little more than average (12 hours flight this year).
Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by bin0 on Sunday June 23, 2019 @03:37PM (#20258181)
Dividing household total (according to the EPA calculator: https://www3.epa.gov/carbon-footprint-calculator/) number of people, about 5.7 tons/person/yr. This is less than the American average. This is also considering that people in said household are required to drive long distances for work (I'm talking 300-mile distances several times per month). We do, however, drive mostly diesel. None of us are willing to give up our jobs. Transportation is most of our emissions; AC is the runner-up.

How about you?

> Look at what the world would look like if climate change is not prevented

I think global warming is over-exaggerated by alarmists who seek to push a political agenda. I'd say it's reasonable to say there's an issue, but certainly not of the magnitude many pretend. I hear 97% quoted a lot, but believe many are simply afraid to contradict the narrative blasted at every one from all major media outlets. 97% it may be, but it wouldn't be the first time the "scientific consensus" was wrong.

> You are in denial

Nope, see above

> we can't individually give up on our beef sandwich

I don't want to, and even if I do, someone else will feel like he is now able to emit more. As I said, tragedy of the commons. And I just don't buy the idea that our living spaces will "become uninhabitable". Why the predictions of a global desert? Greenhouses tend to be damp and flourishing.

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by bonaldi on Monday June 24, 2019 @04:57PM (#20268393)
I read this comment yesterday and I keep coming back to it because it depresses me at a fundamental level. "I don't wanna change and even if I was going to I reckon _they_ wouldn't so I still won't" is the tragedy of the commons yes. But that's not a _defence_ of your actions, it's an admission of your culpability.

The "I'm not in denial, I'm just denying the science" is just cream on the top.

Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by amluto on Sunday June 23, 2019 @01:18PM (#20257060)
There are reasonably credible proposals for minor dietary changes for the cows that will drastically reduce methane emissions. A tax on cattle methane emissions could easily make this happen.
Re:Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the... by e98cuenc on Sunday June 23, 2019 @04:40PM (#20258522)
There was an article about a small change in cattle diet that vastly reduced it's methane emissions. Something related to an Australian algae. Here, I found it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/environme...