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Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by mmt on Friday December 17, 2010 @09:52AM (#2016343)
The key here isn't innovation, but useful innovation.

But the net result of cash cow disease is a waste of brainpower, and a decrease in useful innovation.

From what I can tell, there isn't as much of a contradiction as you imply, and the author is merely advocating a spin-off technique for investing in non-core innovation.

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by sukuriant on Friday December 17, 2010 @10:09AM (#2016402)
What's useful innovation? How do you know it is useful innovation? How long does it take until you discover it's not, if it isn't? What about if it is?

Was the pitch line of Twitter good enough for you to consider it 'useful' before it became what it is?

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by m104 on Friday December 17, 2010 @12:09PM (#2016836)
One of the author's points is that things like Twitter are not being developed and released by Google and Microsoft, despite the massive R&D spending. Furthermore, the only reason why we have Twitter at all is because those founding developers didn't happen to be working for one of the cash cow diseased companies.
Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by sukuriant on Friday December 17, 2010 @12:38PM (#2016941)
My point was that, at least to me, twitter sounded like a stupid idea on paper. I was proven wrong, but there are many ideas just like it that you have to implement to see if it's useful. The phrase "try it and see" comes to mind. That's what many of these side projects are for; and, when you have a TON of money to play with, you can go off and throw a few hundred thousand or million at it and not worry about it. If it turns out to be a good idea, then yay! Victory. If not, oh well, you're still making enough outside of that project to cover everyone.
Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by m104 on Friday December 17, 2010 @01:44PM (#2017202)
Well you'll get no disagreement with me that "try it and see" is a good thing and needs to be funded. What the author is saying, and I take as a very insightful point, is that you're unlikely to efficiently find a project's make-or-break point if you're always awash in cash. Time and resources tend to get used if they are available. Research tends to recommend more research. Delivering a self-sustaining product is hard compared to discovering and exploring within a sandbox.

What the "startup" mentality has that the cash cow companies lack is the sink-or-swim pressures that create success or failure from new projects. Market pressures, in other words. Cash cow companies can afford to have many projects in limbo, sucking time and energies away from progressing towards projects that will ultimately succeed.

Because cash cow companies (by their very nature) haven't had to develop many successful projects, they tend not to be very good at it. Not only that, but cash cow company executives often become fearful of any line of development that may undermine the cash cow's market performance. When those two factors coexist, you're left with a company that's not only painted itself into a corner, but has also forgotten how to paint.

BTW, I think Twitter sounded like a simple idea on paper, but certainly not a stupid one. If a small group of people finds a passionate use case, there are likely others out there who will feel the same.

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by gvb on Friday December 17, 2010 @10:19AM (#2016435)
The author is advocating giving the profits to shareholders rather than investing in innovation. He phrases his "spin off" comment as "let someone else invest in innovation."

Cash cow disease costs _stockholders_ untold (sometimes actively buried in accounting maneuvers) dollars. Consider Xbox, which consumed billions (that's with a 'b') before eventually turning a profit of millions (that's with an 'm'). If Xbox had been spun into a separate company, then Microsoft _stockholders_ could have kept those billions (with a 'b') and let _someone else_ decide to invest billions in trying to jump into the game console business.

(emphasis mine).

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by evilmushroom on Friday December 17, 2010 @09:59AM (#2016366)
And what of the "unuseful successful innovation"?

1) Android is growing like wildfire-- contributes over a billion to revenue last year it was claimed.

2) Google App Engine serves over a billion page load a day.

3) Google Apps? I love it--

etc etc.

Spin-off is a technique, but I don't think it's the only way to go.

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by mattmanser on Friday December 17, 2010 @10:25AM (#2016448)
The point the article is making is that if Google hadn't entered those markets, someone else would have and done it a lot better.

Who's going to seriously invest in an online word processor or spreadsheet with Google apps squatting on the territory? Just MS.

Google apps is still pretty basic and they're not operating under commercial conditions, which means potentially the customer is not getting what they actually want.

I think in some ways he's wrong, not operating under commercial pressures is not necessarily a bad thing, but Google and Microsoft have recently been extremely weak on following through on promising technology, abandoning projects instead of pivoting.

But in Google's case it can be especially toxic, it's then difficult for others to enter those markets as suddenly there's a free competitor. That's not healthy and on that I agree with the author.

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by kenjackson on Friday December 17, 2010 @12:55PM (#2017013)
But in Google's case it can be especially toxic, it's then difficult for others to enter those markets as suddenly there's a free competitor. That's not healthy and on that I agree with the author.

But isn't this the grave we've dug for ourselves (as software developers)? We've pivoted the whole market so that software has no intrinsic value on its own?

Look at WordLens for example. Mindblowing technology. If you could only get it in a standalone piece of HW the markup would purely be a function of the HW cost. As it is, they started pricing at $5. And as ridiculously cheap that is I can see people saying, "Why isn't it 99 cents?"

At this point the horse is out of the barn. The value of your product is no longer the utility of the product, but rather how well advertisers can leverage your audience.

Although that makes me think, there's great advertising angles with WordLens since you know what words/signs people are looking at. I freaking went to sleep thinking about that product... sorry for the tanget. :-)

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by mattmanser on Friday December 17, 2010 @02:53PM (#2017477)
I don't really agree with you here, the size of the biggest market they can go after, anyone who takes foreign vacations, is so massive that $5 is fine.

By keeping the cost lowish, they're discouraging immediate competition, but can still make a large profit if they market it right. And that video certainly looks like the right marketing to me!

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by kenjackson on Friday December 17, 2010 @03:21PM (#2017607)
I'm sure they'll make plenty of money, no disagreement there. My point is that I don't think they can charge much more than $5. Consumers just don't value software enough to pay that amount. The people that complain about a $10 app w/ this functionality will have no problem paying an extra $20,000 for the top line package on a new car. Or $20 for a T-Shirt. Or will pay an extra $2,000 to upgrade to 1st class on that foreign vacation.

For most people software has the value of a Happy Meal prize.

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by kenjackson on Friday December 17, 2010 @07:36PM (#2018483)
BTW, here's a review of the product.

http://gigaom.com/mobile/augmented-reality-translations-word...

read the last line of the WordLens review... "A price cut would also help a lot." $5 is too much to pay for this app! A medium caramel frappucino from Starbucks is almost $5!

It just seems like over the past 20 years I've seen this evolution of programmers building intricate valuable product, to now it being generally viewed as disposable crap... even the best stuff. It only has value when coupled with HW or is a service.

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by dminor on Friday December 17, 2010 @01:07PM (#2017062)
> Who's going to seriously invest in an online word processor or spreadsheet with Google apps squatting on the territory? Just MS.

There are 6 listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_suite

Google's word processor began life as a startup (Writely). It now has real-time collaborative editing from Google's Etherpad acquisition.

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by mmt on Friday December 17, 2010 @02:52PM (#2017467)
1) Android is growing like wildfire

This was an acquisition.

2) Google App Engine serves over a billion page load a day.

Is it profitable? (I'm actually ignorant here.. not snarkiness).

3) Google Apps? I love it--

As do I, but not yet so much to pay for it.

Spin-off is a technique, but I don't think it's the only way to go.

Indeed, I'm not sure even the author is suggesting it's the only way.

Re:Cash Cow Disease: The Cognitive Decline of Microsoft and ... by crander on Friday December 17, 2010 @12:56PM (#2017016)
You cannot discuss innovation without discussing Christensen's Innovators Dilemma and disruptive innovation.

The market incumbent strives upmarket and creates a performance oversupply (a surplus of features in excess of customer demand) which opens space below for a downmarket competitor to disrupt upmarket.