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Re:The End of Political Cartoons at The New York Times by hn_throwaway_99 on Monday June 10, 2019 @05:46PM (#20151208)
If anything, that's the thing I hate most about Twitter. A journalist who wants to write a story with a particular angle can easily find tons of supporting viewpoints on Twitter, and usually at least a few of these are somewhat clever or snarky.

So the journalist writes the article and then uses these examples from Twitter to show that "the masses" agree, or are equally outraged as the author.

Since when do we start giving every rando who can shout something from Twitter equal weight?

Re:The End of Political Cartoons at The New York Times by sonnyblarney on Monday June 10, 2019 @07:11PM (#20151743)
This might be the worst trick used by media outlets to portend there's a 'movement afoot' or 'what most people' think when neither are true.

"People are saying XYZ" - because some random person on Twitter said it.

"People believe this" - again, some random Tweet in support.

They're creating narrative, which is definitely the opposite of news, and it's way beyond 'Editorial' i.e. 'the opinion of the author'.

Politicians do this, and the 'politician in Chief' does this in I think some nefarious ways, but that shouldn't give cover for ostensibly respectable outlets to do the same.

Almost all of the major voices in the press are guilty of this.

The wierdest pardox of the 'Fake News' line (which is usually used in a very cynical, nefarious way to shut down real news) ... is that there is actually a lot of 'Fake News' being created.

I'm tired of having to read everything with a huge dose of cynicism, and of having to look up references and facts because I don't quite trust ostensibly trustworthy people.

I read the news these days not for 'news', but rather to see where various groups are trying to 'focus the narrative', which is really cynical.

Re:The End of Political Cartoons at The New York Times by Fjolsvith on Monday June 10, 2019 @09:01PM (#20152286)
> I'm tired of having to read everything with a huge dose of cynicism, and of having to look up references and facts because I don't quite trust ostensibly trustworthy people.

And yet, that's what you must do. If you rely on spoon-fed cruft, you will be at the mercy of those who hold the end of your nose ring rope, and not even know it.

Re:The End of Political Cartoons at The New York Times by headsoup on Tuesday June 11, 2019 @01:22AM (#20153176)
Not sure why you've been down voted, but it's true.

We are either a) no longer close to the journalism sources to determine their trustworthiness or b) we were being fed the narrative through print and were ignorant to the manipulation through blind trust.

This is not saying don't trust anyone and put on our conspiracy hats, it is saying that we must honest in admitting we should be reviewing, comparing and challenging our news sources until they build sufficient quality to allow trust. (incidentally, I also think part of the reason people hate media sites pay-walling content is because it's asking the question before demonstrating trustworthiness)

Re:The End of Political Cartoons at The New York Times by smsm42 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @07:22PM (#20170367)
> I read the news these days not for 'news', but rather to see where various groups are trying to 'focus the narrative', which is really cynical.

This is not random. It's because people who are in charge of the news decided that their side (whatever it is) winning is more important than you knowing the truth and deciding for yourself. They do not believe you can do the right choice, given truthful information, and they are determined to shape your world in a way that you'd have no choice but believe them. If it requires lying, cheating and faking - they'd lie, cheat and fake, because they have the moral high-ground and it's all ultimately for your own good.

And until people in their masses start rejecting this approach in principle - even if it's their side that is winning! - that would not stop and you will have to be extra cynical (and probably not enough cynical anyway - you are alone and those people are professionals with billion-sized budgets - they probably deceive you much more than you can know).

Re:The End of Political Cartoons at The New York Times by zimpenfish on Tuesday June 11, 2019 @04:28AM (#20153761)
> "People are saying XYZ" - because some random person on Twitter said it.

But it was ever thus - except now there is at least a random person on Twitter saying it rather than it being made up in the newsroom.

> They're creating narrative

Literally every media since the dawn of time has done this - it is, I think, impossible to write an objective report of something -that people will then pay for-. (cf Jim Sterling's parodic objective reviews on YouTube as an example.)

> I'm tired of having to read everything with a huge dose of cynicism

That was always required for any media. It always will be. People buy/found media companies to further their agenda; not out of the goodness of their heart.

Re:The End of Political Cartoons at The New York Times by smsm42 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @07:24PM (#20170378)
> except now there is at least a random person on Twitter saying it rather than it being made up in the newsroom.

How do you know that person is not sitting in the same newsroom? Or the next one?

Re:The End of Political Cartoons at The New York Times by zimpenfish on Thursday June 13, 2019 @04:41AM (#20172828)
> How do you know that person is not sitting in the same newsroom? Or the next one?

You don't but the "person on Twitter said XYZ" at least has a (flimsy) verification test attached to it - search on Twitter, see if you find it. Now, sure, maybe Fred from the next office over posted it after they concocted the story at lunch but the timestamp and age of the account betrays that. Also if it's an egg avatar or has a name like 'madeup9384874'.

No, it's not perfect but at least there is -some- way of potentially verifying that someone, not the reporter, said this.

Re:The End of Political Cartoons at The New York Times by smsm42 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @07:18PM (#20170350)
To me it is still a mystery why anybody cares what people say on Twitter. Well, one may care what Trump says on Twitter, maybe, because he's US President, and if he prefers to express himself on Twitter, and you want to know what's The Leader of The Free Word thinks - it may be important. Maybe a dozen people who can really influence lives - if they choose Twitter as a platform, it makes sense to listen.

But if a bunch of randos make a mob on Twitter why anybody should care? I think the only reason why it has influence because the legacy press is afraid of losing its relevancy and thus tries to be "trendy" and supports those non-events and makes events out of them. They are so afraid and confused that they severely overestimate how important those are - and by that make their own fears come true. And in addition hurt the whole society by amplifying the most noisy and irresponsible voices and drowning reasonable and thoughtful ones. Maybe it's time to stop enabling that noise by refusing to take Twitter chitchat seriously.