News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by hsnewman on Thursday June 06, 2019 @12:49PM (#20116327)
I've always wondered why we don't seed it with some biology that can eat the components of the Venusian atmosphere (ie: sulfuric acid, carbon dioxide) to make a more habitable planet over time.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by m31415 on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:09PM (#20116574)
In Kim Stanley Robinson's 2312, Venus is terraformed by inserting a large sunshade in the L1 Lagrange point of the Venus-Sun system. This makes Venus significantly cooler and atmospheric CO2 freezes. The frozen CO2 is then easily removed.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by thebooktocome on Thursday June 06, 2019 @12:58PM (#20116439)
Because we've failed to terraform much closer, less inhospitable environments, and the risks for getting it wrong are very high.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by theandrewbailey on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:22PM (#20116753)
Which environments are you referring to? Venus is the closest planet to Earth. The Moon is the only significant body between the two.

And by 'we've failed to terraform', did you mean 'we haven't tried yet'?

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by pjc50 on Thursday June 06, 2019 @03:36PM (#20118241)
We're currently in the process of terraforming earth to make it slightly less habitable.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by anticensor on Thursday June 06, 2019 @04:03PM (#20118522)
Terraforming means making it Earth-like. Did you mean terra-deforming?
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by thebooktocome on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:44PM (#20116981)
As far as I'm aware, nobody's succeeded in turning deserts into farm land on a large scale. Various parties keep trying but the water, fertilizer, and maintenance costs are astronomical.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by hsnewman on Thursday June 06, 2019 @02:31PM (#20117517)
Israel has turned much of it's desert into farmland and forests. For example, the Yatir forest is one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yatir_Forest
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by heurist on Thursday June 06, 2019 @07:16PM (#20120171)
All of Los Angeles/most of southern California was a desert, wasn't it? Massive water redistribution is the reason tens of millions of people can live there. Much of California's agriculture comes from the same water redistribution projects.

Plus, there's no life that we know of on Venus. A bacterial population capable of living, evolving, and growing exponentially in that environment would be a huge change.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by aeternus on Thursday June 06, 2019 @06:07PM (#20119712)
We definitely have. There's huge environmental impact, but that is to be expected.

California's Central Valley project is an example, and China has some that are even larger.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by ForHackernews on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:00PM (#20116469)
Wait, what are the risks? It's not like you're going to make Venus _more_ inhospitable than it already is.

Worst case scenario is we'd lose some valuable scientific information about Venus in its natural state.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by darkpuma on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:03PM (#20116505)
The risk that Venus is or was once host to some form of life, and humans deliberately contaminating Venus with life would obscure any evidence of it. That is a very serious worse-case scenario because non-earth life would be truly invaluable to biology.

It seems like a remote risk to me, but not something to shrug off. Particularly since the usefulness of introducing life to Venus is itself quite remote.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by jacobush on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:11PM (#20116593)
Life in temperatures that melts lead? Oh... or do you mean in the atmosphere?
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by dougmwne on Thursday June 06, 2019 @03:35PM (#20118226)
For all we know the Soviet Vega missions could have introduced airborne microbial life into the high atmosphere. We may have already seeded Venus.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by darkpuma on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:16PM (#20116670)
Either. It does seem unlikely, but the truth is we just don't know.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by ceejayoz on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:16PM (#20116666)
> Life in temperatures that melts lead?

Why not? It'd have to have different chemistry, sure, but even on Earth life exists in some pretty extreme temperature and environment ranges.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by tfha on Thursday June 06, 2019 @05:05PM (#20119194)
Life really starts to struggle above 100 C. I think the most heat tolerant organisms we know of top out around 130 C.

Life that could operate at 500 C is probably not water based at all, which would be very novel and certainly interesting to science.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by thebooktocome on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:22PM (#20116754)
Yes, that is a high risk. We're not exactly lush with accessible Earth-ish planets near the habitable zone.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by stcredzero on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:26PM (#20116800)
Wait, what are the risks? It's not like you're going to make Venus _more_ inhospitable than it already is.

To some weird soul out there on the Internet, this sounds like a challenge.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by BariumBlue on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:14PM (#20116643)
Microbes require water, and there isn't enough for them on/in Venus
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by tfha on Thursday June 06, 2019 @05:06PM (#20119204)
Earth microbes require water. Who knows what alien life has as its building blocks.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by jbay808 on Friday June 07, 2019 @02:32AM (#20122145)
You might already know this, but Carl Sagan proposed exactly that plan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Venus

It would probably require more advanced bioengineering and understanding of ecology and extremophiles than we currently have, but it might still be the only feasible plan.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by Shivetya on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:04PM (#20116510)
because we probably don't neither Venus nor the techniques required to make such a change, let alone the money or need. the material requirements alone would be staggering plus we cannot discount the attention span problem, this isn't something likely to be done in a life time
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by jacobush on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:10PM (#20116582)
You are probably right, but wouldn't any technology which actually has a chance of working, also have the property that a small seeding might have the chance of "taking hold" and working wether we remember to continue on it or not?

To be clear, I mean if someone drops a bunch of microbes, only once, and not all of them die but slowly start to mix and live in the atmosphere, wouldn't they over millennia, very slowly but also very unstoppably, eat until everything they want to eat is eaten?

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by ianstallings on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:16PM (#20116665)
There is debate within the scientific community about changing other planets in general. Not everyone is convinced that we should alter or terraform to suit our needs.

Some related links:

https://planetaryprotection.nasa.gov/intpolicy/

https://www.astrobio.net/mars/should-we-terraform/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_of_terraforming

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by gubbrora on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:37PM (#20116921)
This is like nimbyism on steroids. "No one build anything what if there is Rare Science in our backyards".

I mean yes I do kinda see your point, but priorities man. There are ridiculously large advantages to colonizing the universe and destroying a few samples is a low price.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by ianstallings on Thursday June 06, 2019 @04:14PM (#20118634)
It's not that we can't or won't. It's that we should study and debate it before we do anything to change the environment. Given how humans have run roughshod over so many environments, I think carefulness might be warranted.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by bluGill on Thursday June 06, 2019 @02:16PM (#20117347)
Particularly when we don't even know have reason to believe there are samples. If/when we detect life elsewhere we can talk about leaving it alone, but there are plenty of rocks in the universe with no life that we can work with.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by ianstallings on Thursday June 06, 2019 @06:30PM (#20119872)
We can still explore them. It's the contamination of them that is at question.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by bluGill on Friday June 07, 2019 @09:07AM (#20124108)
Why is contamination a question? there are millions of rocks scattered around that are not contaminated or explored. There is more to learn by contaminating a few and seeing what happens than to leave them all uncontaminated.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by ar-nelson on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:05PM (#20116520)
Wouldn't this take thousands or millions of years? Doesn't seem like there's much incentive for a project like that.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by jacobush on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:10PM (#20116586)
If it's cheap, why not try it?
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by barkingcat on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:05PM (#20116524)
Because what if there are Venusians there already and we cannot afford to wage an interplanetary war.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by bluGill on Thursday June 06, 2019 @02:15PM (#20117324)
They might be there and we don't know about it. However the ability to wage interplanetary war implies are a lot of technology that we would be able to detect. Even if we assume they have the space ships in "mothballs", they would need to test and maintain them - something we can detect - or risk that they don't work when they need them.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by empath75 on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:14PM (#20116640)
We can’t even fix the climate where we live, with much easier solutions.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by LoSboccacc on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:39PM (#20116937)
large part of it is sociopolitical: major populated and productive countries are locked by their social and economical structure into the need of perpetual growth to inject capital at the base as the top scoop up any floating wealth, stopping the growth without some for. of wealth redistribution would cause massive instability and with the margin of today production the first two to introduce climate control will be eaten (economically speaking) by the third one.

on the other hand we could likely today engineer algae or fungi to fix carbon into cellulose but you're going to need massive space for their growth and some place for their disposal, unless you can make some sort of bioplastic out of it, because burning them would defeat the purpose, and I bet once you put the number in the unbelievable scale needed for the project would scare the bejesus out of the very same ambientalists types that are currently most vocal about saving the world but abhor nuclear

anyway I think the real issue NASA has about bioengineering are ethical, and Venus is in the same protection category as Venus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_protection

you can draw parallels between the development of cities as Rome, London, Chicago and Los Angeles substituting environmental protection with historical buildings protections. it's important to preserve the best and most relevant landmarks of course but too much and it becomes a real drag.

Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by m0zg on Thursday June 06, 2019 @03:19PM (#20118080)
Technically we can. We just can't do it (currently) without ruining the living standards for 90% of the world's population.
Re:Momentum is building to explore Venus by staplers on Thursday June 06, 2019 @12:59PM (#20116457)
Europeans said the same about North America when they landed on it.. we might want to study it a bit before making biosphere decisions like that.. not to mention the feasibility of it being possible.