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Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by Gaelan on Thursday June 06, 2019 @12:29AM (#20111600)
I think you’re overthinking this. The vast majority of Ruby/Python programmers have been installing their own copies themselves, because Apple was pretty slow in updating them (Ruby is usually a few minor releases behind, Python is still 2.7 IIRC). People will just keep doing that, and nothing will change.

They may or may not be moving off Unix, but this isn’t evidence of that.

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by blablabla123 on Thursday June 06, 2019 @05:00AM (#20112777)
And it's to be appreciated. When installing my own Python version, I'm worried it might interfere with system tools that might be written in it.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by indigo747 on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:21AM (#20111820)
As a counter-anecdote, the built in Ruby interpreter in Mac OS X Tiger was the way I learned to program and how I got interested in programming. I don't think a bare Ruby interpreter is the best way to get into programming, but Apple hasn't been great at encouraging programming among kids. As a kid, its development tools were totally baffling, where Ruby was much easier to understand.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by oarsinsync on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:49AM (#20111941)
> Apple hasn't been great at encouraging programming among kids

You should check out what they’ve been doing for years with Swift Playgrounds on the iPad

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by bnt on Thursday June 06, 2019 @02:25AM (#20112077)
But that's teaching a new generation of coders a set of tools designed only for Apple. Ruby (Python etc) are open and easily available on other platforms, Swift may be in the future but it isn't now.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by willyt on Thursday June 06, 2019 @04:06AM (#20112493)
Swift is open and available on other platforms. I can install it on a raspberry pi if I want.

https://swiftreviewer.com/2018/12/21/swift-programming-on-ra...

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by schrodinger on Thursday June 06, 2019 @04:49AM (#20112721)
Once you’ve learned one programming language, it’s not hard to learn a second. It’s not terribly important what you’re first language is, and Swift isn’t a bad starting point anyway.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by swebs on Thursday June 06, 2019 @05:55AM (#20113005)
Huh? You can download Ubuntu builds right on their site

https://swift.org/download/

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by goalieca on Thursday June 06, 2019 @10:34AM (#20114909)
Funny. I learned on qbasic and I remember they were teaching dr racket at ubc to first year students. They were teaching java when I was in engineering and my career has basically gotten zero Mileage from that stinking heap of uncollected garbage.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by ash_gti on Thursday June 06, 2019 @03:28AM (#20112326)
How about using a web browser with JavaScript?

Maybe not the best language for someone new but its widely available.

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by gridlockd on Thursday June 06, 2019 @03:49AM (#20112418)
How about just a web browser?

You can run almost any language from a web browser these days:

https://repl.it/languages/

A lot of educational sites offer embedded interpreters like this.

It has never been easier to start to learn programming. The real challenge nowadays is maintaining attention...

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by sciencerobot on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:56AM (#20111970)
One of the things that drew me to Macs as I started to learn programming in '05 was that I could simply open any macbook and type python/ruby/perl and write some code.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by Fnoord on Thursday June 06, 2019 @03:22AM (#20112300)
Different time. Now you got Homebrew
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by pdpi on Thursday June 06, 2019 @03:35AM (#20112352)
Which installs itself based on the system Ruby. Will be interesting to see how that plays out.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by nbaksalyar on Thursday June 06, 2019 @03:52AM (#20112438)
Like it works now with older versions of macOS and on Linux: it downloads a Ruby binary when it's not available on the host system.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by Fnoord on Thursday June 06, 2019 @03:42AM (#20112382)
They just pack a statically compiled Ruby interpreter with Homebrew. Not very complex or novel. Disadvantage: install becomes more bloated (larger size).
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by pdpi on Thursday June 06, 2019 @04:48AM (#20112712)
Sure, it’s not a hard engineering challenge. However, installation instructions right now are as simple as “run this one-liner on your terminal”. That’ll have to materially change.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by Fnoord on Thursday June 06, 2019 @04:53AM (#20112744)
> Sure, it’s not a hard engineering challenge. However, installation instructions right now are as simple as “run this one-liner on your terminal”. That’ll have to materially change.

It could just as well still remain a one-liner. Every system Homebrew is installed on has Bash installed (not the latest, but still).

Instead of

> /usr/bin/ruby -e "$(curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/in...

It could become

> curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/in... | bash

With the install script containing a payload containing the current Ruby script plus a Ruby interpreter. Still a "one liner".

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by toyg on Thursday June 06, 2019 @07:34AM (#20113483)
> Every system Homebrew is installed on has Bash installed

Ironically, they are also moving from bash to zsh for default shell. Again not an unsurmontable challenge (just make sure the bang is correct in your scripts, bash will likely still be around somewhere in macOS for the foreseeable future) but another little hurdle to mind.

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by Sean1708 on Thursday June 06, 2019 @08:17AM (#20113767)
As far as I'm aware they're not changing anything about which shells are installed or which executable /bin/sh points to they're just changing the default login shell for a new user, so nothing should have to change about the scripts that are (or have been) written.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by Fnoord on Thursday June 06, 2019 @07:51AM (#20113586)
Doesn't surprise me given they dislike GPLv3 and Zsh is MIT.

Personally I try to use #!/bin/sh as much as possible, and Fish as my default shell.

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by holtalanm on Thursday June 06, 2019 @08:47AM (#20113997)
upvoted for fish
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by butteroverflow on Thursday June 06, 2019 @05:27AM (#20112892)
Take a look at the installation instructions for the Rust compiler.

https://rustup.rs/

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by musicale on Thursday June 06, 2019 @10:22PM (#20121124)
But you have to download Xcode if you want a C compiler!

On the up side though, clang has made the C/C++/ObjC world a much better place.

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by peterburkimsher on Thursday June 06, 2019 @04:13AM (#20112526)
I had the opposite experience with AppleScript - the development tool (Script Editor) was simple enough for me to understand that it was the way I taught myself to program when I was 13.

(OK, I learned Logo in school when I was 7, but programming became way more interesting when I discovered AppleScript's APIs to control all the programs on my Mac).

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by coldtea on Thursday June 06, 2019 @04:22AM (#20112576)
>As a counter-anecdote, the built in Ruby interpreter in Mac OS X Tiger was the way I learned to program and how I got interested in programming

And you think a one-click download and install of Ruby would have prevented that?

Not to mention Apple also has Swift, and Swift Playgrounds and so on for kids these days.

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by firecall on Thursday June 06, 2019 @07:16AM (#20113380)
Sure... but that was then. I too had a real hard time learning Ruby back in the day. But now if you google any Ruby or Rails how-tos they will include a one-line Brew and RBENV install.

So I get what you are saying but I think we are in a new world here.

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by crazysim on Thursday June 06, 2019 @02:00AM (#20111987)
Swift Playground for macOS? One can hope!
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by comex on Thursday June 06, 2019 @02:31AM (#20112103)
Technically Xcode has supported Playgrounds since before the iOS app existed, though if you mean the teaching content, it doesn't have that.
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by wyclif on Thursday June 06, 2019 @02:59AM (#20112206)
Right, I think most developers know that it's a bad idea to mess with the old, unmaintained system versions of Python, Ruby, or Perl. Almost everyone I know uses Homebrew to install the bleeding edge versions separately, and that will save you a world of pain.

For Python folks, just install pyenv/pipenv and you can easily maintain `system` (Python), Python2.7x, Python3.7.3, &c as separate environments. For Ruby people it's rbenv.

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by ende on Thursday June 06, 2019 @09:40AM (#20114399)
Or anaconda!
Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by ken on Thursday June 06, 2019 @11:15AM (#20115333)
This alone isn't evidence of that, but it's not the only data point we have. We've got 20 years of observations. They dropped X11 (and didn't use it for the main display in the first place), created new process APIs (like GCD and background tasks), deprecated standard libraries like OpenGL (and don't support Vulkan), designed their own programming language, etc. All of these point in the same direction.

What will be left? Will it still be "Unix" in any meaningful sense just for having a C compiler and running an old version of Bash? Microsoft Windows did that, too.

Re:macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including ... by lone_haxx0r on Friday June 07, 2019 @03:13AM (#20122325)
> They dropped X11

You don't have to be anti-unix to do that though, any reasonable organization would have done the same. I agree with the rest though.