How does Apple privately find offline devices?

Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by Xylakant on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @05:59PM (#20109595)

How is that going to work? All communication that you initiate must be active. The only passive option would be broadcasts like TV or radio stations, but that’s not particularly useful if you want to view a specific website.

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by m463 on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @07:03PM (#20109998)

I meant, don't turn your phone into a beacon. (as a setting is ok)

The idea would be yes -- connect to bluetooth headphones or your car. Connect to wifi in your home. Allow NFC transactions on command.

But no, don't promiscuously advertise your device. Don't look up every bluetooth beacon you encounter or crowdsource every wifi access point.

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by kevas on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @10:40PM (#20111128)

If your WiFi is on, it’s already doing this. It’s saying, here’s all the networks I’ve joined in the past. Are you one?

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by danShumway on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:08AM (#20111761)

> If your WiFi is on

Many people disable Wifi when they're not planning to be actively connected to a network. Even ignoring the privacy benefits, it can improve battery.

I'll add my voice that this is nice, and I appreciate Apple's approach and privacy improvements, but I'd kind of like to be able to turn Bluetooth on and off the same way I can with WiFi.

I want most connections on my phone (with a couple of small exceptions) to be user-initiated only.

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by jodrellblank on Thursday June 06, 2019 @06:47AM (#20113242)

> Many people disable Wifi when they're not planning to be actively connected to a network. Even ignoring the privacy benefits, it can improve battery.

In a recent iOS update, it turns on automatically again; you can only disable it "until tomorrow". Not sure if that's until midnight, until "morning", but it doesn't seem to be "for 24 hours".

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by m463 on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:36AM (#20111880)

I thought it was:

- hidden ssid access point - your phone will broadcast unique data looking for it (initially the ap must listen and respond)

- regular named ssid access point - your phone can passively listen for the name and join if it is available. (initially the phone must listen and respond)

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by Nition on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @06:35PM (#20109827)

Just cycle though every website on the Internet and have the PC pause when the requested page is loaded obviously. It worked for Teletext.

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by RosanaAnaDana on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @06:18PM (#20109706)

Could be more like a key RFID. Like, the system could have died, its antenna has been restructured to work like an RFID; so if there is a live device in the area, it can resonate and generate a slight signal.

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by berbec on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @06:15PM (#20109693)

NFC is passive until powered by an external signal. It's very short range, but it does not require internal power. There could be a longer range version at some point.

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by Xylakant on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @06:20PM (#20109729)

Yes, but an NFC tag cannot initiate a connection on its own volition. And that’s very much a feature I like in WiFi: I can actively start downloading something. A WiFi card that only responds to an external ping is useless.

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by m463 on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @07:24PM (#20110103)

I think what berbec is saying is maybe you can locate an NFC device that has a depleted battery.

That said, I don't know if apple NFC works that way. Apple can use NFC to read nearby NFC tags, and possibly become an NFC tag, but I don't know if it can respond in a static way without power.

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Re:How does Apple privately find offline devices? by RosanaAnaDana on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @06:20PM (#20109726)

Maybe thats what this is. I'm well outside of the world of signal transduction, but a cell antenna/ wifi/ bluetooth antenna might be able to..

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