News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @11:46AM (#20105604)
Why are the BBC quoting the BBC's opinion on this? Are the BBC making a political opinion statement about the police in another country?

The BBC have always loved to report about themselves and often literally interview themselves. It's not unusual for them to report about their own report of an interview between themselves and one of their own executives. But this is become really bizarre now.

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by Angostura on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:18PM (#20105926)
Because the BBC News operation try and maintain an editorial firewall between itself and the rest of the corporation. In this case BBC News reporting that a UK broadcaster (the BBC) feels the attack on ABC is worrying is relevant to the story.
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by shusson on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:10PM (#20105845)
The ABC was modelled after the BBC and still has a lot of similarities with the BBC [1]. It makes sense that the BBC has an opinion on this and is quoted.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Broadcasting_Corpor...

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by johneth on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:00PM (#20105736)
What would you think about their transparency and impartiality if they didn't report on a story they're involved in? That's why.
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:04PM (#20105788)
They should let other people report on stories that involve themselves, obviously.
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by johneth on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:17PM (#20105905)
The BBC reporting on stories about itself doesn't stop other people from also reporting on stories about the BBC. Isn't that obvious?
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:17PM (#20105918)
I didn't say it stopped them. I know it's possible for them to do it.

I said they should stop doing it. It's completely impossible to be even remotely impartial reporting yourself. Isn't that obvious?

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by matthewmacleod on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:37PM (#20106167)
No, it’s totally non-obvious to me that this would be the case. It seems frankly ridiculous that you would think they shouldn’t - particularly when there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest partiality in this case.

The BBC news organisation often reports on statements or events affecting themselves or other parts of the organisation. Most high-quality news sources do the same. If anything, I’d actually expect them to be taking even more care than normal to avoid bias when they do so.

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:41PM (#20106246)
I disagree I’d prefer they recuse themselves, like any other professional with a potential conflict of interest would.
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by johneth on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:27PM (#20106042)
You said they "should let other people report on stories that involve them", implying that somehow they could stop that. Bit of a blurry sentence.

> It's completely impossible to be even remotely impartial reporting yourself. Isn't that obvious?

No. It depends on the organisation. In the BBC's case, I'd say the opposite is true.

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:31PM (#20106098)
‘Should let them’ as in ‘leave it to them’ not ‘should permit them.’
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by happytoexplain on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:03PM (#20105765)
An opinion is not an article. A news organization may report an opinion, factually, as part of an article, if it is relevant, even if the source of the opinion is themselves. It makes perfect sense to me.
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:06PM (#20105799)
I don't think the BBC should give any political opinion on any news story, ever.

But if they want to, why don't they report the story and include their opinion straightforwardly? Why do they resort to the mental gymnastics of issuing an opinion and then reporting on that opinion as a new story as if it's a separate thing? Makes me think they know it's wrong so they contort themselves like this to do it.

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by johneth on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:11PM (#20105862)
The BBC (organisation) is giving the opinion. BBC News (an independent division within the organisation) is reporting on it, likely in the interests of full transparency.

The BBC has certain obligations, one of which is "sustaining citizenship and civil society"[1], of which freedom of the press falls under. So in this case, I'd argue they're obligated to defend it by giving their opinion, especially when it's happening to a fellow public broadcaster (the ABC).

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/bbc-edi...

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:17PM (#20105908)
Their charter also requires them to a reflect a diversity of opinion. Literally quoting your own opinion first is the worst approach to diversity of opinion I can imagine.
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by r3bl on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:20PM (#20105948)
That's because you don't understand what "opinions" are (at least, in this context).

News stories should be brief and answer "5W" questions (who, what, when, where, why). As such, they're supposed to be based on the facts alone, and others should draw their own conclusions from them.

Opinions, on the other hand, are used to put the news stories into context. Journalists are supposed to have more background to the stories than you could learn from just reading the facts (since they're the ones that wrote them). That background can be used to help you interpret those facts.

In this case, an incident happened. BBC put out an opinion piece to tell you why you should care about that incident before they had enough facts to answer all five of those questions. A news story links to that opinion so that they could help you with placing those answers into context.

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:34PM (#20106132)
Bottom line for me is - I know the BBC have already made up their mind that this is an attack on press freedoms rather than a legitimate investigation, so I’m now not going to be holding my breath for them to report any developments that are contrary to that view.

That’s why it’s a shame they choose to do this.

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by r3bl on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:44PM (#20106283)
"I came up with this strawman that people close to the situation didn't think of (probably because it isn't even close to being true), so I'm going to hold on my own strawman argument even though I have absolutely nothing to base it on."

There, fixed that for you.

Could it be that you're misinterpreting facts? No, it must be that those who have access to first- and second-hand accounts that are wrong. Not you, a person pulling out a hypothesis based off of less info nor any contact with any of the parties in the story.

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:50PM (#20106365)
You’re just being snide and snarky now.

I don’t know why people think it’s extreme to say that I don’t want my public broadcaster quoting their own opinions in the news reports. The article would have been complete without a quote from themselves, or could have used a quote from someone else qualified. Really easy solutions.

Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by r3bl on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:52PM (#20106386)
There's no such thing as unbiased journalism.
Re:Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster by chrisseaton on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @12:56PM (#20106434)
I agree - but people can try. Like not quoting yourself.