News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by banachtarski on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @06:13AM (#20093563)
You know when I'll believe it? When the un-screw up their app store which vastly incentivizes the development of free-to-use ad-driven apps that prey on user tracking data over premium alternatives. Ad-based revenue has a higher value proposition to developers because it dodges the inane anachronistic 30% tax. "Privacy" first is an utter illusion when the majority of apps approved in this closed ecosystem that ostensibly supports privacy does just the opposite.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by scarface74 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:33AM (#20093941)
Developers aren’t doing ad supported apps because of the 30% “tax”. Did software sell with ads when they had to pay physical retail stores 60% for distribution?

They do ads because people are too cheap to buy apps.

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by ballenf on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @12:41PM (#20096710)
Getting 30% less ad revenue means that subscription revenue would look marginally more attractive. Some # of apps would switch to "paid" if the tax applied to ad revenue. And maybe some apps just wouldn't get made at all, if they were already on the margin of profitability.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by scarface74 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @01:02PM (#20096950)
Most of the most profitable apps on the store are free to play games with loot boxes and in app purchases or subscriptions - and most of those aren’t even accepting purchases on the App Store anymore.

If Apple reduces their “tax” to 15% how would that compensate for not having the ongoing revenue of ad sales?

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by Kalium on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @10:20AM (#20095260)
There might be a more subtle issue at work here. Sales provide one-time revenue, heavily taxed. Ads provide recurring revenue.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by scarface74 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @10:31AM (#20095362)
And would reducing the “tax” - what normal businesses call distribution expenses - to 10% change the equation?
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by Kalium on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @12:38PM (#20096669)
There are doubtless cases where that extra slice of one-off revenue per customer would make all the difference in the world to the business model.

At the same time, I suspect that in most cases it would not change the business decisions being made. Recurring revenue matches the financial needs of a business better in most cases.

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by scarface74 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @01:04PM (#20096973)
Which ones? Can you think of one category of apps that would not do recurring revenue ad sales and go to one time purchases?

Honestly I can’t think of one non game app that is ad supported without the option of turning off ads with an in app purchase or subscription.

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by Kalium on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @02:00PM (#20097571)
I am not able to point concretely to any. As I am not possessed of sufficient internal fincancial information to evaluate the question, I am also not equipped to evaluate the question.

I do feel safe in suggesting that across all the apps of the world, there is a greater than 50% chance of there being at least one such application.

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by banachtarski on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @02:45PM (#20097989)
If they wanted, they could ban ads, end of story. This would be the equivalent of the retail distribution. They could open up their platform so people could install software outside of the app store.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by scarface74 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @05:30PM (#20099463)
You’re actually arguing for a more restrictive App Store where ads aren’t allowed and curtailing a revenue source?
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by CivilianZero on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:49AM (#20094436)
Apple isn't doing anything to drive development of "free-to-use ad-driven apps that prey on user tracking data...", that would be people being unwilling to pay more than 99 cents for anything and believing subscriptions are a rip off.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by braythwayt on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @06:27AM (#20093620)
It’s not a dichotomy, so I will just say that in addition to circumventing the app store’s take, developers have users to “blame” for the race-to-the-bottom of the surveillance capitalism bucket.

As long as users will balk at paying even 4.99 for an app, developers will make them free and then engage in dark business models like surveillance and terrible in-app purchases.

To be fair and stop “blaming the victims,” this is a classic hard problem in psychology: The purchase price is an immediate, objective cost. Surveillance and the possibility of getting sucked into in-app purchases are subjective, uncertain costs with consequences in the future.

In aggregate, humans are really bad at making those judgments, trebly so when other humans are rigging the game to make the judgment difficult to evaluate.

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by new299 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:41AM (#20093986)
The problem is that app developers often just do both. They charge, but still use adverts.

You see this in games in particular. Paying removes /most/ adverts. However it does not remove the “watch an advert to get an extra life” style adverts. I assume it also does not remove any ad tracking.

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by dunnevens on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:01AM (#20094120)
I can't speak to all games, but the pay-once games I've seen have been free of this. No advertising at all, beyond the little ads for their DLC (if they have any.)
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by Ntrails on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @06:45AM (#20093698)
> As long as users will balk at paying even 4.99 for an app

Out of interest, what is the refund policy in the app store? I know, for example, I'm way more chilled about paying for "unknown" steam games when I can refund them after an hour of play if I don't like them.

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by WA on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @06:54AM (#20093750)
You can refund purchases for up to 14 days. I consider this a somewhat well-kept secret, because nobody seems to make use of this.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by jannes on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:00AM (#20093781)
How do you make use of this? It does not seem to be an obvious part of the app store.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by gergles on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:13AM (#20093833)
Click "report a problem" in the invoice link they email you after a purchase. It isn't very obvious.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by WA on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:12AM (#20094189)
It is indeed not very obvious:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204088

I heard you even get to keep stuff you wanted to get a refund for. But I haven’t tried this.

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by new299 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:45AM (#20094014)
I think they will refund almost automatically (seems like up to 14 days based on another comment). In my experience you need to wait a while (maybe a week?) until the charge registers. After that you can get a refund.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by ben509 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @10:41AM (#20095456)
Psychology definitely plays a role in biasing how people interpret things they see and their priorities, but I think much of this is better understood through an economic lens.

If you consider the actions you take to preserve your privacy, it's a strategy you developed over time. And no one can claim to have a formula for devising the perfect strategy when there are non-trivial unknowns. This isn't just common, but normal in economics.

An economic actor can a. estimate the potential costs and benefits, b. observe other actors' strategy and outcomes but must ultimately c. execute their own strategy.

None of these are fully rational, and you have scarce resources (time & money, ability to survey the problem, limited exposure to the actions and consequences of other actors) to allocate to A and B.

If everything works, you stick to your strategy. If you get burned, you adjust your strategy in response. (Though a strategy may be "eat a cost less than $X.")

And if you observe it working for others or others getting burned, you might also adjust your strategy. This does lead to a natural selection of successful strategies; actors are "eventually optimal."

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by jclardy on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:50AM (#20094048)
The solution I believe still lies in Apple's court.

Say you have an app that is a niche app with a 7 day free trial and a one-time purchase. How does this look to the user? Exactly like every other freemium/ad riddled/subscription/pay-to-play app. The download button says "Get" and underneath it you see "In-App Purchases Available." User expectations are destroyed at the download page.

One part of the solution is to allow developers to actually define an app as a time limited free trial. Make the download button say "START FREE TRIAL" and underneath "$4.99 to Purchase". Let the user buy or take the free trial from the App Store...but most importantly let them know that it isn't yet another subscription app, or something riddled with ads (Even going so far as to add an app review check that will look for ad network connections to ensure compliance.)

Apple has created a system where user's are now afraid of in-app purchases, because they allowed kids games to be riddled with them and other apps to setup up predatory free trial structures with weekly renewals (And until recently, buried the subscriptions page in a few levels of settings menus.)

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by gbear605 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:13AM (#20094197)
The app store already works like this. They clearly mark subscription apps like this, including free trials.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by cameronbrown on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:28AM (#20094293)
But free trials are never really free: after 14 days when you've probably already forgotten about the app, your card gets charged. There needs to be a proper way to try stuff without slyly charging them.

Maybe ask them outright at the end of the trial if they want to carry on?

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by gbear605 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:11AM (#20094598)
That’s also already built in by Apple. Free trials don’t automatically turn into paid subscription unless you tell them to.
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Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by oarsinsync on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:17AM (#20093858)
Unfortunately, that's one of the things that tends to be true of all new product offerings.

Mostly-screen multi-touch smartphones? They were only for the rich when they first launched too. As demand grows, scale enables other businesses to build cheaper options.

Given how quickly competitors copy anything vaguely new or novel coming out of Apple, it seems reasonable that someone will come up with a similar competing service before long.

If they don't, maybe it's also worth focusing some attention on those who directly try to exploit the poor and/or less knowledgeable?

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by gbear605 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:15AM (#20094204)
You can get a decent used iPhone for under $200. I don’t fault Apple for not making an iPhone cheaper than that.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by piyush_soni on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @01:34AM (#20101762)
You can get a used thing for cheap - that's universally true. Can't give credit to Apple for that! They are not making it cheap by themselves.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by omnifischer on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:27AM (#20094288)
Try to use it as daily driver. Very difficult.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by bwbw223 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:53AM (#20095001)
An iPhone 7 is still perfectly usable, in my experience. They also should still be supported for a while. Used, they can easily be found around the $200 price point.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by asark on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @10:57AM (#20095622)
Can confirm, on a 7 Plus, phone's entirely fine, no problems at all. I don't expect to replace it for another two years or so, unless it breaks. Probably by the end of that it'll be feeling a little slow and the battery'll be down to 36hrs rather than lasting all weekend.

Also on a used first-gen iPad Pro 12.9". It's great. I may sell it and pick up a used 3rd-gen when the 4th gen comes out. Or may wait one past that, pick up a used 4th, and just give the 1st-gen to my kids rather than selling. Apple devices are worth the money in part because they don't go way downhill after 12-18mo, so 1) they actually hold some value, and 2) you can skip a couple upgrades and not feel like you're missing out on much.

Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by jasonlotito on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:39AM (#20094356)
How is it compared to other phones at the same price level though?
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by simonh on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @10:03AM (#20095101)
My daughter is on a £150 6s, the same model I’m using right now, just fine for the last 9 months.
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by funnybeam on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @02:13AM (#20101907)
I’m using a 6s too for my personal phone. Work phone is an 8 and I honestly can’t tell the difference
Re:Apple is now a privacy-as-a-service company by gbear605 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:10AM (#20094590)
I’ve done it. It’s not.