Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation in plain text

Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by miki123211 on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @04:12AM (#20037805)

If people could share the source along with the diagrams they make, this could be huge for accessibility. I can't count how many times I've been blocked from reading some content just because of all the JPGs and SVGs my screen reader couldn't read. Often they were themselves created with GUI programs, so even the authors couldn't help.

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by enriquto on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @04:31AM (#20037909)

I love this idea, but the practicality of it all does depend a lot on the language used to describe the diagrams. I have seen impressive "single file" LaTeX articles, where the figures were carefully crafted in Tikz, and the source code of the figures was all but readable.

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by norswap on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @09:37AM (#20039969)

I think the point is precisely that this is much more declarative than something like Tikz.

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by maxkrieger on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @09:40AM (#20039994)

I work on the SVG renderer for Penrose and would love to reach out and see if there's anything we can do to improve this! The renderer is written declaratively in react so it's easy to add supplemental tags or even a more readable DOM hierarchy.

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by nerpderp82 on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @02:37PM (#20043763)

Include the Penrose source as a comment in the SVG, this can also be done with a PNG as well.

https://dev.exiv2.org/projects/exiv2/wiki/The_Metadata_in_PN...

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by miki123211 on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @12:22PM (#20042118)

sure, my email is the same nick as here on Google's mail service.

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by simongr3dal on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @05:23AM (#20038196)

The source might be nice.

Even nicer would be if people bothered to fill out the `alt` and `title` attributes with details about the image as well as the reason for it being there.

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by nerdponx on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @06:14AM (#20038440)

Do you know of any resources with examples of good "alt" attributes? I (not a web developer) never know what's important to put there, or how much.

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by _randyr on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @07:09AM (#20038727)

Here's a good short description with further resources for reading:

https://github.com/springernature/frontend-playbook/blob/mas...

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by simongr3dal on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @07:15AM (#20038753)

I don't think 25-75 words is an unreasonable amount of text for an alt attribute, just try to imagine how you would describe it for a blind person.

xkcd sometimes – mainly when there are characters and panels and dialogue – includes a div.transcript element that explains what is on the image.

Example: https://xkcd.com/1558/

Has the following transcript: [[A concerned pet owner at the front of a row of customers in a veterinarian's office. A tired veterinary assistant performs arbitrage. A pet carrier cage, the sort used to contain a small dog or cat, is on a desk for the vet tech to examine.]] Pet owner: There's something wrong with my dog. Pet owner: He keeps crawling around eating dirt. [[The vet tech carefully removes the dog from its carrier and gently examines it.]] Vet tech: This is a roomba. Pet owner: Well, he's a mix. Pet owner: Probaby some roomba in there. [[The vet tech places the roomba on the desk, probably maintaining a weary forced congeniality though we can't see their face.]] Vet tech: A roomba is not a pet. Pet owner: You're right. It's wrong to keep a beautiful creature like this in a house. [[The pet owner, outside, beneath a tall tree. It looks like an ash, or maybe a beech. There aren't any leaves drawn in the frame so I can't be sure.]] Pet owner: Go! Be free! [[The roomba cheerfully speeds towards the tree]] Roomba: WHIRRR {{Title text: It's probably for the best. Since Roombas are native to North America, it's illegal for Americans to keep them in their houses under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.}}

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by miki123211 on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @12:21PM (#20042091)

curiously, my screen reader does not read that transcript.

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by mncharity on Thursday May 30, 2019 @12:28AM (#20048390)

So... there's another entire layer of xkcd humor?!? That (at least for this one) isn't even on forums.xkcd? That I've been oblivious to for years? OMG. 2k comics to revisit, or at least to scrape for transcripts? TIL... wow, that's unexpected.

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Re:Penrose: Create diagrams by typing mathematical notation ... by ummonk on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @12:23PM (#20042126)

I wonder how far one could get with an ML-based tool for such diagrams.

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