>They just want “free” things provides by government and lower taxes.

As a young American myself, I would gladly pay (significantly) more in taxes in exchange for a much stronger social safety net. Broadly, this is for two reasons, one altruistic and one selfish:

1) There are tons of people in dire economic straits through no direct fault of their own; those whose industries are dying, those whom our healthcare system has failed, etc. I can't ignore this in good conscience if there's something we as a society can do to improve the situation.

2) While I'm well-off as a tech worker right now, and demand is high, there's no guarantee that will continue to be the case indefinitely. It would give me much peace of mind if the lower bound of how far I could ultimately fall was a lot higher than it is now.

A “well off tech worker” is already paying taxes similar to what they would in Europe. An individual making $300k pays a marginal rate of almost 45% in California, about the same as in Germany. But in Germany, the marginal rate of 42% kicks in for income above about $70,000. In California, that rate is 30% for a single person. Their equivalent of FICA taxes is 17.5% for the employee share, versus 7.5% here. (And both their medical and pension social insurance taxes are only paid on the first $70-80k of income, versus here where SS is paid on up to $130k and Medicare is paid on all income.)

It’s worth playing around with a German tax calculator: https://www.brutto-netto-rechner.info/gehalt/gross_net_calcu.... A single person making 30,000 euros in Germany pays about 25% of total income in taxes. In California it’s about 15%. Someone making 300,000 euros pays about 45%. In California, it’s almost exactly the same, 44%. That’s not counting the 20% VAT, which will disproportionately hit the person making 30,000. (That also doesn’t count all the middle class deductions which don’t exist in Germany, like the mortgage interest deduction.)

I’m perfectly willing to pay German taxes to have a German style welfare state. (It would be even better if we had Germans running those new public services.) The question is whether middle class Americans are willing to do so.

I'm not in Germany, but Norway. A land of high taxes, on par with Germany but with high consumer prices. You obviously aren't calculating in things like not going broke due to a medical expense. I never have to worry about having maintenance medicine, for example. I'm not paying any more in taxes than I was in the US, once I included my health insurance. I honestly pay less overall because of the way US health insurance is set up.

I broke my arm in the autumn and had paid leave. I was working my 2nd season as a temp worker in a chocolate factory. (I'm in norway because my spouse is Norwegian. I'm lower middle class if anything). There also isn't as much difference between poor and rich, though the difference definitely exists.

Children's healthcare is free. Maternity leave exists and it is fairly robust. People get paid days off if they are sick, and parents get more so they can properly take care of their children (I'm pretty sure this is similar to Germany).

You don't notice the VAT most of the time. Here it is 0% for books/newspapers, 15% on food, and 25% on everything else. The VAT is included in the price, which is much preferable to having 8.5% sales tax on things as a surprise at the register (or having to do careful math and know the local tax rate). I also don't need to pay tips so a waitress can survive. I can actually have life stability in ways I could not have in the US.

I don't think his point is that the German middle class suffers as a result of their model. I think he is just saying that Germans accept a high (compared the U.S.) level of direct taxes on the middle class to enable their way of life, and that we would need to accept the same deal here in the U.S. if we want the same outcome.

Give it to them for a decade and then try taking it away and you'll see how much even Republicans will begin enjoying the benefits.

What makes you think most young people just want "free" things by the government and lower taxes? Granted, I don't talk much with regular young americans, but the vast majority of opinions I hear on the topic seem to talk more about systemic injustices and the huge issues with seeking exponential growth above all else. I can't recall seeing anyone ever arguing for both lower taxes and free healthcare/education/whatever at the same time.

We already have very low taxes compared to countries that offer free healthcare, education, etc. Young Democrats are under the misperception that we can pay for all those things without raising taxes on them, just on corporations and people making over $10 million per year. They don’t realize what those other countries do to pay for those services.

Our former au pair is a young German lady who previously worked an entry level office job in Germany. When she tore her ACL, she was able to pay the hospital and EMT bills out of her own income. Her taxes and mandatory social insurance payments were also 40% of her paycheck. And although college in Germany is almost free, she wasn’t eligible to enroll based on her scores on the abitur exam. She definitely would’ve gone to college in the US, but only about 30% of German high school graduates enroll in college, versus almost 70% here.

I personally like the German system a lot. I think college is overrated and that it’s great that in Germany you can graduate high school at 16, do an apprenticeship, and get a real job with room for growth. But young liberals in the US seem to be under the view that you can have your cake and eat it too. They don’t realize that Germany, etc., doesn’t match their vision for the US, where the government pays for people with average grades to get social science degrees and put off getting a real job until 25, while taxing entry level workers next to nothing.

How is paying 8k more for taxes but 10k less on insurance or education not a win? Yeah you have higher taxes cry me a river your out of pocket spending is less.

In Roosevelt's day anyone earning 1 million + was taxed at 95%. Basically meaning all their money went back to the state. It encouraged them to spend it on business and grow their business holdings.

The big wins come in having a single-payer for health who can say : No we will not pay $35 to hospitals for a single ibuprofen, stop gouging prices. Or we will not pay more than $x for insulin - don't like it? We'll end your patent term for non-generics early so prices CAN go down.

It's that collective bargaining combined WITH the end of insurance salaries. More money is free'd up for hospitals, and if we can make the system tech-streamlined, we could save even more. The more we automate the entire stack the better for the entire billing/management of funds to drs/hospitals.

> How is paying 8k more for taxes but 10k less on insurance or education not a win? Yeah you have higher taxes cry me a river your out of pocket spending is less.

It may well be a win! I think it is. But that’s not the pitch liberal Democrats are making. They’re saying “you can have European style benefits, but you won’t pay European style taxes. The top 1% and corporations will pay for all of it.” That’s not realistic.

> In Roosevelt's day anyone earning 1 million + was taxed at 95%. Basically meaning all their money went back to the state. It encouraged them to spend it on business and grow their business holdings.

Roosevelt’s economic ideas were bad and the US and Europe have spent decades unwinding similar policies. That’s the lesson liberal Democrats refuse to take away from Europe. The Reagan Revolution happened in Europe as well as the US. Industries were deregulated, businesses were privatized, and taxes were lowered. Europe continues to move further to the right.

And Germany, France, and Sweden don’t “soak the rich” as the US tries to do: https://images.app.goo.gl/xbVh5c9cXHqfMESx6. They have high but relatively flat taxes on individuals, and moderate taxes on corporations and capital gains. An in-depth comparison of Germany and US taxation is here: https://www.chicagofed.org/publications/chicago-fed-letter/2.... Overall US taxes are about 10% of GDP lower than Germany ($2 trillion). A small part of that difference comes from lower taxes on capital (23% versus 27% overall). The real difference is significantly lower taxes on labor, and massively lower taxes on consumption.

If we moved to a German tax system, it wouldn’t “soak the rich.” Capitalists would see their taxes go up a little. Labor and consumers would see their taxes go up massively.

Not every system is like this, though. I'm in Norway. Taxes are high, but I think the top tier takes around 45% out. Most folks don't pay that much. They do tax benefits for the poor and food, though - but the safety net is much more robust. Taxes + health insurance in the states was around what I pay in taxes here. If I added in medical expenses overall, I paid more in the states. Since I've moved away, I have been diagnosed (recently) with an autoimmune disease. I couldn't have afforded this level of care in the US. Not to mention how much I'd owe from a broken elbow last autumn.

Single payer health insurance allows folks to do cost-saving things with health insurance. Such as sending a nurse out to a home up to 6 times a day instead of a nursing home. Even if you live on an island or spend summers in a mountain cabin, this is still cheaper overall than a nursing home. Pay for some people's travel instead of making things available everywhere. and so on. There is also a private system. My understanding is that the government still pays their normal rate for most services and you pay the rest.

I'm also not sure Germany's tax rates are all that much different than here in Norway with the possible exception of the church tax. [1]

Colleges in the states will let about anyone in if you are willing to pay for it. You don't need to take advanced courses, simply do well enough at average classes. Working hard to keep your grades up in advanced classes wasn't enough to get a scholarship - at least it wasn't when I was in school years ago. I can't imagine that has changed now. In both places, however, it is possible to go back as an adult.

College education is shorter without as many required classes. The system for vocational school is much, much more robust however. Want to work cleaning places? You usually need your schooling certificate or experience behind you. Some employers will send you to school as well.

[1] https://www.expatica.com/de/finance/taxes/income-tax-in-germ...

The top tier in Norway is around 45%, but it kicks in at just $90,000. You have to make $500,000+ to hit that marginal rate in most U.S. states. And the rates below that aren't much lower: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Norway#/media/File.... It's 36% at about $23,000. In California, the marginal rate at $23,000 is about 24%. Then there is a the 25% VAT, versus the 7.25% sales tax in California.

An investment banker in NYC pays a marginal rate of 50% above $1 million. She could see her tax go down slightly under a Norwegian system. But Norway raises 10% more of its GDP in tax revenue than the U.S. That's coming from somewhere, and that's the middle class. But that approach is exactly the opposite of what Democrats in the U.S. are proposing.

Most folks aren't making that sort of money either, just like most folks aren't making 500,000. Most professions with high incomes in the US don't make as much here, but then again, the floor is generally higher.

It really doesn't matter if the tax rate is 24% in california if you are paying out of pocket for health care. You cannot compare tax rates from the US to Norway without including both state tax, federal tax, and health care (because the Norwegian tax rate includes this).

In the US, Even if you are lucky enough to have an employer who pays for part of it, you are likely paying a few hundred a month, on top of which you must pay for the deductible (at least a few thousand)... and then you still pay 20% until you've reached the out of pocket. Prescriptions are something else entirely (I am taking one that costs 8k in the us. I pay nothing due to the type of medicine it is). For medical, I paid about 2500kr out of pocket (less than 300) for the year and now most things are covered. If I wind up in the hopsital, I'll have bandages and possibly prescriptions if they aren't maintenance prescriptions. These are reasonably priced. Children's medical care is free.

And again, the taxes include schooling. This helps doctors not need to be paid as much, for example, because they aren't having to pay back loans for 8 years of schooling. And so on. I'm an immigrant, and I get schooling if I qualify and health care.

And as I've said elsewhere, you don't notice the VAT most times. The only time I really noticed was when ordering and importing an instrument into norway last year. It is included in price. FWIW, VAT is 0% on books and newspapers, 15% on food, and 25% on everything else. I know the price when I get to the register.

I'm awfully certain that the us could make up much of that 10% if they simply didn't have as many tax breaks for different folks.

Actually Germany is currently (2018) at about 55% of people joining college [1]. So things are changing.

[1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/72005/umfrage...

The socialist/capitalist divide isn't so interesting. What's interesting is whether we're ever capable of reeling in failed programs and axing entrenched bureaucracy. There is no major party seriously advocating for the reduction of the size, scope and spending of government. So most discourse is centered about unproductive hair-splitting of how much we should increase budgets for department X or program Y.

> There is no major party seriously advocating for the reduction of the size, scope and spending of government

That is a familiar Republican talking point. "Starve the beast"; "Drain the swamp", et cetera.

> talking point

Hasn't really happened - government and spending has grown healthily under Trump.