Re:Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism (...
by rayiner on Monday May 27, 2019 @07:51PM
(#20026104)
> How is paying 8k more for taxes but 10k less on insurance or education not a win? Yeah you have higher taxes cry me a river your out of pocket spending is less.
It may well be a win! I think it is. But that’s not the pitch liberal Democrats are making. They’re saying “you can have European style benefits, but you won’t pay European style taxes. The top 1% and corporations will pay for all of it.” That’s not realistic.
> In Roosevelt's day anyone earning 1 million + was taxed at 95%. Basically meaning all their money went back to the state. It encouraged them to spend it on business and grow their business holdings.
Roosevelt’s economic ideas were bad and the US and Europe have spent decades unwinding similar policies. That’s the lesson liberal Democrats refuse to take away from Europe. The Reagan Revolution happened in Europe as well as the US. Industries were deregulated, businesses were privatized, and taxes were lowered. Europe continues to move further to the right.
And Germany, France, and Sweden don’t “soak the rich” as the US tries to do: https://images.app.goo.gl/xbVh5c9cXHqfMESx6. They have high but relatively flat taxes on individuals, and moderate taxes on corporations and capital gains. An in-depth comparison of Germany and US taxation is here: https://www.chicagofed.org/publications/chicago-fed-letter/2.... Overall US taxes are about 10% of GDP lower than Germany ($2 trillion). A small part of that difference comes from lower taxes on capital (23% versus 27% overall). The real difference is significantly lower taxes on labor, and massively lower taxes on consumption.
If we moved to a German tax system, it wouldn’t “soak the rich.” Capitalists would see their taxes go up a little. Labor and consumers would see their taxes go up massively.
It may well be a win! I think it is. But that’s not the pitch liberal Democrats are making. They’re saying “you can have European style benefits, but you won’t pay European style taxes. The top 1% and corporations will pay for all of it.” That’s not realistic.
> In Roosevelt's day anyone earning 1 million + was taxed at 95%. Basically meaning all their money went back to the state. It encouraged them to spend it on business and grow their business holdings.
Roosevelt’s economic ideas were bad and the US and Europe have spent decades unwinding similar policies. That’s the lesson liberal Democrats refuse to take away from Europe. The Reagan Revolution happened in Europe as well as the US. Industries were deregulated, businesses were privatized, and taxes were lowered. Europe continues to move further to the right.
And Germany, France, and Sweden don’t “soak the rich” as the US tries to do: https://images.app.goo.gl/xbVh5c9cXHqfMESx6. They have high but relatively flat taxes on individuals, and moderate taxes on corporations and capital gains. An in-depth comparison of Germany and US taxation is here: https://www.chicagofed.org/publications/chicago-fed-letter/2.... Overall US taxes are about 10% of GDP lower than Germany ($2 trillion). A small part of that difference comes from lower taxes on capital (23% versus 27% overall). The real difference is significantly lower taxes on labor, and massively lower taxes on consumption.
If we moved to a German tax system, it wouldn’t “soak the rich.” Capitalists would see their taxes go up a little. Labor and consumers would see their taxes go up massively.