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Re:Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism (... by Broken_Hippo on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @03:33AM (#20028011)
Not every system is like this, though. I'm in Norway. Taxes are high, but I think the top tier takes around 45% out. Most folks don't pay that much. They do tax benefits for the poor and food, though - but the safety net is much more robust. Taxes + health insurance in the states was around what I pay in taxes here. If I added in medical expenses overall, I paid more in the states. Since I've moved away, I have been diagnosed (recently) with an autoimmune disease. I couldn't have afforded this level of care in the US. Not to mention how much I'd owe from a broken elbow last autumn.

Single payer health insurance allows folks to do cost-saving things with health insurance. Such as sending a nurse out to a home up to 6 times a day instead of a nursing home. Even if you live on an island or spend summers in a mountain cabin, this is still cheaper overall than a nursing home. Pay for some people's travel instead of making things available everywhere. and so on. There is also a private system. My understanding is that the government still pays their normal rate for most services and you pay the rest.

I'm also not sure Germany's tax rates are all that much different than here in Norway with the possible exception of the church tax. [1]

Colleges in the states will let about anyone in if you are willing to pay for it. You don't need to take advanced courses, simply do well enough at average classes. Working hard to keep your grades up in advanced classes wasn't enough to get a scholarship - at least it wasn't when I was in school years ago. I can't imagine that has changed now. In both places, however, it is possible to go back as an adult.

College education is shorter without as many required classes. The system for vocational school is much, much more robust however. Want to work cleaning places? You usually need your schooling certificate or experience behind you. Some employers will send you to school as well.

[1] https://www.expatica.com/de/finance/taxes/income-tax-in-germ...

Re:Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism (... by rayiner on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @11:07AM (#20030858)
The top tier in Norway is around 45%, but it kicks in at just $90,000. You have to make $500,000+ to hit that marginal rate in most U.S. states. And the rates below that aren't much lower: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Norway#/media/File.... It's 36% at about $23,000. In California, the marginal rate at $23,000 is about 24%. Then there is a the 25% VAT, versus the 7.25% sales tax in California.

An investment banker in NYC pays a marginal rate of 50% above $1 million. She could see her tax go down slightly under a Norwegian system. But Norway raises 10% more of its GDP in tax revenue than the U.S. That's coming from somewhere, and that's the middle class. But that approach is exactly the opposite of what Democrats in the U.S. are proposing.

Re:Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism (... by Broken_Hippo on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @05:11AM (#20038133)
Most folks aren't making that sort of money either, just like most folks aren't making 500,000. Most professions with high incomes in the US don't make as much here, but then again, the floor is generally higher.

It really doesn't matter if the tax rate is 24% in california if you are paying out of pocket for health care. You cannot compare tax rates from the US to Norway without including both state tax, federal tax, and health care (because the Norwegian tax rate includes this).

In the US, Even if you are lucky enough to have an employer who pays for part of it, you are likely paying a few hundred a month, on top of which you must pay for the deductible (at least a few thousand)... and then you still pay 20% until you've reached the out of pocket. Prescriptions are something else entirely (I am taking one that costs 8k in the us. I pay nothing due to the type of medicine it is). For medical, I paid about 2500kr out of pocket (less than 300) for the year and now most things are covered. If I wind up in the hopsital, I'll have bandages and possibly prescriptions if they aren't maintenance prescriptions. These are reasonably priced. Children's medical care is free.

And again, the taxes include schooling. This helps doctors not need to be paid as much, for example, because they aren't having to pay back loans for 8 years of schooling. And so on. I'm an immigrant, and I get schooling if I qualify and health care.

And as I've said elsewhere, you don't notice the VAT most times. The only time I really noticed was when ordering and importing an instrument into norway last year. It is included in price. FWIW, VAT is 0% on books and newspapers, 15% on food, and 25% on everything else. I know the price when I get to the register.

I'm awfully certain that the us could make up much of that 10% if they simply didn't have as many tax breaks for different folks.