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Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by cfcf14 on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @06:04AM (#19979561)
I completely agree. When I first started writing Go (coming from Python/C#) I complained an awful lot about what felt like pointless hamstringing of functionality. Go is a simple language, and you don't get many toys. It also feels very verbose at times, and forces you to think a lot about doing things which seem automatic in other languages.

However, as time went on, I noticed a few trends. Firstly, forcing me to think more revealed that what I had thought was automatic was more automagic - Go forces you to take responsibility for what your code does to a far greater extent than other more convenient languages, albeit not to the extent that C/Rust does. Secondly, I noticed that code written in Go tends to do what I expect it to pretty much all the time (with the occasional except of async stuff). Sitting down and writing a program in Go often results in something that actually works the first time it runs, and has far fewer runtime surprises.

As painful as it is to do numerical computation in Go sometimes, I have a very high level of confidence that I can look at a program, deduce with some accuracy its runtime memory usage & footprint, multithread it easily, and reason (successfully) about possible runtime failure modes and behaviour. This is something I find difficult if not borderline impossible to do in Python, especially utilising the standard '10 layers deep' stack of numerical computing libraries.

Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by playing_colours on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @07:07AM (#19979873)
Interesting, that I saw a similar pattern like "at first I complained, but as time went on I found some benefits" quite a lot.

It can be that your learn a language better, became more comfortable with the way it must be used: say, stopped writing code in Elixir the way your used to write in Python.

But the other thing is that it's in our human nature that we tend to look for something positive in bad situations we exposed to for a long.

Say like, PHP was a fractal of shit, but when you use it for a long you will notice that it will make you more aware of what functions to use and how not to fall into some undocumented craphole, be more responsible, and do not take it for granted that some function would work flawlessly. The obvious benefit from the shitty situation.

EDIT: Grammar

Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by lallysingh on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @08:37AM (#19980462)
The nice thing about walking minefields is learning how to watch your step.
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by tehsauce on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @12:31PM (#19982863)
I like this because it could be said seriously or ironically
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by mcguire on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @03:34PM (#19984657)
"If you're walking on eggshells, don't hop."

-- unknown

Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by stcredzero on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @01:42PM (#19983524)
That's like the idea of planting a bamboo plant, then jumping over it every day. It's a nice idea, but you won't ever be able to jump over a two story house. Instead, you'll eventually catch your foot and tumble. Likewise with the minefield. The result, is that you'll eventually step on a mine. At best, you can use a simulated minefield as an exercise, then use mine detection equipment and proceed with caution.

Or, you can avoid the minefield entirely.

Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by SmirkingRevenge on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @07:45AM (#19980087)
My enjoyment using any given language always tends to grow as I get more productive with it, even if I have a more general dislike for the language itself.

Making computers do things is fun (usually)! The programming language is (almost) immaterial - depending on the task at hand of course.

Despite myself, I've even found myself enjoying JS in the few times I had no choice to avoid it. shudder

Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by nfriedly on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @01:53PM (#19983636)
That part about JS is pretty much the story of my career - I started out completely hating JS, was forced to use it enough to get more familiar with it, and eventually eventually started enjoying it to the point that it's now the primary language I write.

(I still hate it occasionally, but there's a lot more joy these days.)

The initial turning point was probably around the first release of jQuery...

Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by mcguire on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @03:37PM (#19984685)
[Javascript isn't actually that bad of a language. It really is about 90% of Scheme plus prototype inheritance, which takes some getting used to but ... eh, it's as good as any other option. The problem was that it was one of the battlefields between Microsoft and Netscape and has some really hideous scars in the landscape.]

I did not write this. My fingers did not type it. Nothing to see here. Move along. I'm a hedge.

Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by coldtea on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @06:04PM (#19986054)
>Javascript isn't actually that bad of a language

Well, the basic parts are not that great. Plus, it has almost nothing of Scheme (nothing more than e.g. Python has of Lisp), that's just an old wives tale. It just has closures and that's it. Scheme is a Lisp, whereas Javascript isn't [1]. Not sure what Brendan had in mind when he was inspired by Scheme, but the end product is nothing like it.

Coercion rules are crazily bad. No integer type is stupid. Prototypal inheritance nobody much cared for (where nobody = very few). An empty array is not falsy. And several other stupid decisions besides.

The only reason it wasn't that bad, is that it wasn't big enough to be bad. It was just a handful of features plus a tiny (and bad) standard library (some math, some string stuff, etc). Everything else people had to build on top (and usually the did it badly).

[1] https://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2013/07/18/javascript-isn...

Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by marcosdumay on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @06:50PM (#19986434)
I think JS is very fun to write. It's making sure it does what I want it to do that is irritating.
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by coldtea on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @05:57PM (#19985994)
>Interesting, that I saw a similar pattern like "at first I complained, but as time went on I found some benefits" quite a lot.

Isn't that also a classic example of "boiling the frog" or Stockholm Syndrome?

Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by fouc on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @07:53AM (#19980137)
This. Plus folks are always comparing to their previous experience, which is likely to still be a subjective and also hard to compare at all too. It's like apples (Go) vs oranges (C#) vs broccoli (Python).
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by reilly3000 on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @09:10AM (#19980755)
+1 for 'fractal of shit' - that is a keeper.
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by codethief on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:10AM (#19981344)
I read the "fractal" part as a hat tip to this rather famous article: https://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by new4thaccount on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @06:52AM (#19979784)
What type of numerical computing do you do? By that, I mean what is the problem domain?
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by cfcf14 on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @07:03AM (#19979848)
Mostly machine learning for distributed sensor networks (ie: smart meters). Deal with lots of time-series data, state space modelling, some recurrent neural nets (etc). Our shop has a 'golang only' thing going, which means that I end up having to reimplement algorithms in go sometimes from scratch.
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by playing_colours on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @07:41AM (#19980049)
nice area, I would be interested to learn more into this type of problems. Recently, I became for interested in power electronics / smart grids / energy, and looking for the ways to get in touch with people working on such problems, learn more and join any company on these domains.
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by new4thaccount on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:57AM (#19981877)
It depends on what you want to do as this industry is HUGE. Do you care about metering and working at the solar panel or wind farm level? Or maybe on the actual energy markets that commit and dispatch all generation in a region? Or maybe the vendors that write the software for those markets? Or you could work for the utilities or IPPs that own the generators...or the state public service commission that control state plans. There is also FERC and NERC. There are companies that sell energy storage systems...the list goes on and on.
Re:Go is Google's language, not ours by new4thaccount on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @10:51AM (#19981802)
I saw on the Adacore website a success story for another company that sells smart metering products, so it is nice to see all the work in this space. There are plenty of major vendors as well with smart meter products and the accompanying software.

What company do you work for by the way if you can say?