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Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by refurb on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:38PM (#19964227)
Climate change and mass extinction are the chief reasons I am pessimistic about my life.

Can you name another time in recent history where the end of the world wasn't near? WW1, Great Depression, WW2, Mutually Assured Destruction, Swine flu, AIDS, Cuban missile crisis, etc, etc.

The correct answer is it's always been this way and what we're going through right now isn't really all that new.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by icegreentea2 on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:48PM (#19964347)
As a millennial, at least one thing that is different is that we all grew up in that brief period when the world wasn't ending. We grew up in the 90s and early noughts, when ya, there were problems, but they all seemed containable. It seemed like the adults generally knew what they were doing, and could be counted on the to the right thing.

I'd also argue (with no real basis of course) that the type of dread that climate change and mass extinction invokes is possibly of a different kind than most of the crises that you listed.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by Domenic_S on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:29PM (#19964822)
> the world wasn't ending. We grew up in the 90s and early noughts, when ya, there were problems, but they all seemed containable

Here are some things I remember from that time off the top of my head:

We were on the brink of environmental collapse as CFCs were destroying the ozone layer

Acid rain was going to destroy lakes, trees, rivers, eventually killing us all

HIV was not well understood and very very scary

Waco/Branch Davidians siege

The Oklahoma City bombing

The Unabomber

Desert Storm

The Bosnian War

of course, 9/11

> It seemed like the adults generally knew what they were doing, and could be counted on the to the right thing.

I wager that's an artifact of youth, it seems to me we all think the times when we grew up were easy to understand, everything's going great, etc.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by nixpulvis on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:21PM (#19965338)
It's honestly not that there are issues, as you have mentioned, there have always been. In fact we're a lot better off on almost all fronts than hundreds of years ago.

It's that we aren't making any progress, and generally are moving the wrong way.

There will never be a lack of issues to tackle. It's "how" we tackle them that defines our era. And as far as I've seen, we do a lot more arguing and debating about what we're talking about than we do fixing problems in the real world, myself included.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by drjesusphd on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @05:15AM (#19968626)
> Acid rain was going to destroy lakes, trees, rivers, eventually killing us all

At that time, we had a functioning government that (relatively) promptly intervened to implement a cap and trade policy on sulfur emissions.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by taberiand on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:50PM (#19965052)
All of this pales in comparison to the coming devastation of climate change and the global pollution crisis, which actually should be included in that 90's list as well - and the 80's, and 70's...
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by rdiddly on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:36PM (#19964913)
And the world was going to end at the stroke of midnight Jan 1 2000. There was a real and palpable undercurrent of apocalyptism in the zeitgeist.
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by weaksauce on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:50PM (#19965045)
I remember talking to my fundamentalist Christian friend in high school who literally said his last goodbyes to his friends. The next time I saw him was awkward.
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by krapp on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:28PM (#19965416)
Did he join the Seventh Day Adventists?
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by Domenic_S on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:37PM (#19964921)
Of course, how could I forget Y2K?
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by rdiddly on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:02PM (#19965163)
Cuz it was so forgettable! ka-zinnggg!
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by hiram112 on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:31PM (#19965441)
> We were on the brink of environmental collapse as CFCs were destroying the ozone layer

I'd probably be ridiculed by most of the younger crowd here for my views on global warming, I mean climate change, but as someone who distinctly remembers the nonstop warnings of the Ozone Layer - we're all gonna die - I just don't put much energy into worrying about the latest issues related to the environment.

Part of me knows that I'm probably underestimating the actual problem, but I've been hearing warnings for years that never amounted to anything.

I wonder if this is why the boomers, who were literally practicing nuclear bomb safety in school (much like school shootings now) and have had another few decades of dire warnings that never materialized, are even more unlikely to care about the environment or much else about which the younger generations are so fearful.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by masterj on Monday May 20, 2019 @07:20PM (#19966265)
> Part of me knows that I'm probably underestimating the actual problem, but I've been hearing warnings for years that never amounted to anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

Listening to the cultural zeitgeist is one thing, but actually listening to the scientists who are doing these studies or people who are summarizing their findings is another. I really recommend reading through the NCA summary https://nca2018.globalchange.gov/ and sitting with the data and what it says.

The short answer is that you are vastly underestimating the problem

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by acdha on Monday May 20, 2019 @07:43PM (#19966387)
You need to look at what was done in response to those warnings before you can say whether they were wrong — otherwise you’re like the people who say Y2K was a waste of money because they didn’t see the bugs which were fixed.

In the case of CFCs, we know that a global response largely solved the problem. In the case of global warming, where a trillion dollar industry has been pumping out spin since they first realized global warming was really happening in the 1970s, we have not see the same response and we’re right on the trajectory predicted by reports in the 1990s — only now it’ll be much harder to do anything:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2012/12/ipccs-climate-projec...

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by detaro on Monday May 20, 2019 @07:32PM (#19966331)
The nonstop warnings of the Ozone layer were probably among the reasons for the quite decisive switch away from CFCs, preventing the problem from getting truly bad. It's an interesting balance: you need to push it through to people that something needs to be taken care of, it's mostly successful and everyone is annoyed that it wasn't so bad after all, why the panic? (I wonder if Y2K is a good IT equivalent: Not much happened, because people were worried before and stuff got fixed, but the worry jumped over into mainstream not seeing that distinction)
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by drjesusphd on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @05:18AM (#19968635)
You don't hear about he ozone layer and acid rain anymore because experts fixed the problem.
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by refurb on Monday May 20, 2019 @06:05PM (#19965771)
This is a very insightful comment!

When all you've heard for the past 40 years is the end of the world is around the corner, and that doesn't turn out to be true, you start to tune it out.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by drjesusphd on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @05:17AM (#19968632)
Do you realize that acid rain and ozone depletion aren't problems anymore because the government fixed them?
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by ryandrake on Monday May 20, 2019 @07:30PM (#19966319)
Yup, I’m over 40 and there’s definitely a “Boy who cried wolf” effect in play here. I’m tired of having to be constantly outraged about the latest environment disaster that’s sure to kill us all this time!
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by atq2119 on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @12:59AM (#19967653)
Except that unlike in the story, there really were wolves, and we managed to take them down.

CFCs and the ozone layer are a good example: there was a wolf, there was decisive action because people listened to the warnings, and we managed to beat the wolf.

Carbon emissions are an entirely different scale of problem though because so much of our economies is built on them.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by redwards510 on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:17PM (#19965315)
Don't forget killer bees!
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by el_benhameen on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:52PM (#19964392)
I try to remind myself of that, but most of those had a simple solution of "don't do that thing". Don’t go to war, don't nuke each other, etc. I admit that that's a vast oversimplification of the forces at work during those crises, but the point is that they were in some way imminently stoppable. Climate change isn't like that. Even if we stop the causative behaviors in full today, which we won't come close to doing, the results will continue, have major consequences, be difficult to cope with, and be very difficult to reverse.
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by Analemma_ on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:20PM (#19965332)
> Can you name another time in recent history where the end of the world wasn't near? WW1, Great Depression, WW2, Mutually Assured Destruction, Swine flu, AIDS, Cuban missile crisis, etc, etc.

The key difference is that, with the possible exception of MAD and the Cold War, during all of those crises people were in near-universal agreement that there was a crisis, and were actively working to fix it. Climate change is a unique problem in that a depressingly large percentage of the population believes it is a myth, that there is nothing wrong and no need to do anything.

That's where the despair is coming from. If everyone understood the seriousness of the problem and was determined to fix it, I have no doubt we could do it. We've solved bigger problems in the past. But right now we're not even trying. Even the progress that has been made has mostly been an accidental byproduct of market forces like renewables getting cheaper; the actual amount of deliberate effort to fix climate change is close to zero and seems likely to remain that way.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by refurb on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @11:01AM (#19970741)
during all of those crises people were in near-universal agreement that there was a crisis, and were actively working to fix it

I don't think that's accurate. Take AIDS for example, there were plenty of arguments over the right approach, with very little consensus. Even with WW2, there were plenty who said "America needs to stay out of this war" and "We shouldn't have used atomic weapons".

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by jbattle on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:50PM (#19964376)
So we should be approaching climate change with the attention and resources that we threw at the great depression, ww2, and the cold war - right?

But we aren't, not even close

I agree there have always/frequently been dire challenges facing us, but that is no logical foundation for arguing "it worked out ok before, it'll work out OK this time"

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by rootoor on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:47PM (#19964334)
I don’t think it is fair to compare climate change to those previous issues and conflicts you mentioned.

The fact that our society is dependent on destroying the environment and all of the related politics is a much more difficult set problems to solve than a overblown disease scare, war, or geopolitical struggle.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by village-idiot on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:27PM (#19964802)
I doubt many in America thought either world war was the end of the world.

But the difference is that all of those required affirmative action to cause a global catastrophe, someone had to reach out and press a metaphorical button. With global warming the status quo will get us all killed.

Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by badpun on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:55PM (#19965088)
Global warming is not lethal in itself. The biggest threat in it is destabilisation of societies and resulting wars - but for a war to start, somebody has to press that metaphorical button. It is not inevitable.
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by downrightmike on Monday May 20, 2019 @10:39PM (#19967192)
I was reading Ben Franklin's autobiography and he noted that he had a neighbor who always thought the world was going to end and was paying rent about 4x of what he would have spent if he had bought his home when Ben first came across him and his end of the world views. The neighbor didn't believe in investing because it was the end, but now can't afford to own because he didn't believe in the future. Moral of the story is that if you focus on the bad future, and don't try to invest for yourself, your going to be in a bad spot. But the future comes whether you like it or not, spend time minding your own business and make plans to improve your future. Sure the climate is going to get bad, but if you don't prepare yourself, it will hurt even more. People have been living in deserts for generations, we can survive and we will. Be mindful of your impact and reduce it, but don't fret the future, it comes regardless of your view. Especially in this forum, the people here can have an impact and digitize the world, reduce paper use, reduce carbon use, invent ways to be more efficient. The sooner software eats the world the better off the world will be, help it along.
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by blueprint on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:26PM (#19965397)
Bunch of nonsense. None of the examples you cited from other times had any remote comparison to the literal collapse of the global ecosystem. What do you get out of arguing that the level if crisis we're in is not so severe that humans civilization is going to collapse and that there's nothing we can do about it? At least with MAD, the most severe of your comparisons, there's an implicit reason why no one fired nuclear weapons. There is no recourse for what is happening on Earth right now. I'm actually kind of disgusted by your comment.
Re:Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Thei... by noobiemcfoob on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:03PM (#19965173)
The scale of it all is ever increasing, even if the sentiment is near constant.