News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by chrisco255 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:21PM (#19931458)
I think what people choose to eat is extremely personal to them. I'm glad you made a lifestyle choice that benefitted you, but I would shudder the thought of living in a society where the government tells you exactly what you can and can't eat.

Education, public awareness, these kind of initiatives I can get behind. Regulation of food intake, is a step too far.

FWIW, I've eaten processed, fried, GMO foods my whole life (and consume fast food drive thru at least 5-6 times a week) and have no health issues whatsoever. But I try to not eat to excess and I exercise regularly.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by billmalarky on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:53PM (#19931834)
>I think what people choose to eat is extremely personal to them. I'm glad you made a lifestyle choice that benefitted you, but I would shudder the thought of living in a society where the government tells you exactly what you can and can't eat.

This canned "the government shouldn't choose what I eat" argument is reductionist to the point of deficiency at best, and disingenuous at worse.

The fact is an unregulated free market forces choices on us no different than government regulation. The quality and type of food a consumer has access to is highly dependent on market decisions — that is the food demanded by other consumers — not individual decisions. The problem is consumers in the US at large are either ignorant about health/nutrition or just plain don't prioritize the future (sustainable health) over the present (what I'm eating was iteratively designed in a lab to maximize my immediate dopamine hit).

Good regulation isn't binary. You can regulate the food industry to protect consumers from predatory/harmful practices (such as engineering food so that consumers overeat by "growth hacking" food via salt/sugar/fat in order to drive revenue growth) while still allowing an abundance of dietary choices.

>FWIW, I've eaten processed, fried, GMO foods my whole life (and consume fast food drive thru at least 5-6 times a week) and have no health issues whatsoever. But I try to not eat to excess and I exercise regularly.

Some people smoke two packs a day and die at the ripe old age of 100. The vast majority of smokers die significantly earlier than average. Much like you wouldn't consider a lottery ticket a wise investment even if it pays off, you shouldn't interpret your personal health and dietary experience to much other than good fortune. Your experience is an outlier in the face of mountains of data that tell a different and honestly quite depressing story.

Lastly, I know sometimes tone can be misinterpreted easily in text. So if my comment came off as brash or an attack etc, please re-read it with a polite and friendly tone in mind. I'm passionate about this topic because I want to help.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by chrisco255 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:25PM (#19932167)
Don't equivocate eating food to smoking. There is no evidence that someone who consumes a healthy level of calories (whether those calories are wheat-based, meat-based, potato-based, etc) are putting themselves on any kind of path to cancer or heart disease.

Carbs are carbs. Protein is protein. Fat is fat. Sure, some types of foods (including fried foods) have excessive calories for the average American lifestyle. That's been known for decades. But there is no evidence that calories from broccoli are any less or more cancerous than calories from potatoes or bread or vegetable oil.

My experience is not an outlier.

This guy has eaten 30,000 Big Macs, perfectly healthy: https://people.com/food/mcdonalds-big-mac-supersize-me-don-g...

Studies on diets with a variety of macros (but the same calories): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19246357 CONCLUSIONS: Reduced-calorie diets result in clinically meaningful weight loss regardless of which macronutrients they emphasize.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413101 CONCLUSIONS: These findings provide more detailed evidence to suggest that diets differing substantially in glycemic load induce comparable long-term weight loss.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by sneak on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:39PM (#19932298)
Carbs are not carbs (high vs low GI, for example), and fat is not fat (trans fats vs MCT, for example). Many other factors go into whether or not input calories are digested, whether or not input calories are stored (and whether or not as glycogen), and whether or not input calories end up as long-term fat.

It isn’t that simple.

That said, that’s absolutely no argument for regulation. People should be free to entirely destroy themselves seeking short-term dopamine hits—if they so choose. It is staunchly immoral to impede them.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by billmalarky on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:06PM (#19933218)
>That said, that’s absolutely no argument for regulation. People should be free to entirely destroy themselves seeking short-term dopamine hits—if they so choose. It is staunchly immoral to impede them.

This ignores the entire premise of my comment, which is that people's choices in this context are not made in a vacuum.

If the market demands unhealthy food, then that is what the food industry will supply, and thus be the option made generally available to all.

The food industry has exploited human evolutionary traits (cravings for salt/sugar/fat and other nutrients that are high-value in moderation but detrimental in excess) to push the market in a direction that boosts consumption (and thus revenue growth) at a cost to our health.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by sneak on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:10PM (#19933261)
The cost to people’s health is not caused by “the food industry”. It is caused, moment by moment, by those same people choosing to harm themselves.

Grocery stores still sell broccoli and chicken. People choose to buy oreos and croissants and other refined carbs. That’s not “the food industry”.

It’s variously described, but “consumer choice” and “market demands” don’t really capture it. It boils down to other adult humans, just like you and I, choosing what they want to spend their money on, choosing what foods they want to eat.

It is nobody’s place but the eater to tell them what they should or should not be doing. Full stop.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by andrekandre on Friday May 17, 2019 @07:30PM (#19944554)
> That said, that’s absolutely no argument for regulation. People should be free to entirely destroy themselves seeking short-term dopamine hits—if they so choose. It is staunchly immoral to impede them.

i could agree with you for individuals

but for corporations who are making money off of (and actively marketing) certain things (that indeed do harm people) i would say regulations should exist to at the very least mark thier products so the consumer is informed “this will most likely kill you if you take more than once a day” or “there are no proven claims in this product” etc...

after working at a few very large firms, i have little faith in companies being genuine about their products’s safety, and if one was to leave things to “the market” then being informed is the absolute minimum in my opinion... idk though maybe i am missing something...

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by nokcha on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:53PM (#19931826)
>but I would shudder the thought of living in a society where the government tells you exactly what you can and can't eat.

I agree, but the government can use softer nudges like taxes and subsidies to help encourage healthier eating. A good start would be to examine existing farm subsidies and ask whether they encourage unhealthy dietary choices.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by not_a_moth on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:10PM (#19932013)
> consume fast food drive thru at least 5-6 times a week

> have no health issues whatsoever

That you're aware of. What's your fasted glucose level, or A1c? What about inflammation markers? Given your lifestyle you should probably know your calcium score (heart) too.

You could be pre-diabetic and not even know it, which means without intervention, you'll be really screwed in your not so distant future. You might already have plaque and scars accumulating in your heart. Or elevated inflammation slowly damaging organs in your body. Know your numbers if you're going to eat fast food every day of the week.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by gambler on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:41PM (#19932321)
>You could be pre-diabetic and not even know it

That can be said about anyone.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by not_a_moth on Thursday May 16, 2019 @04:46PM (#19933021)
"pre diabetic" is a clinical designation. You can be or not be it, and know it, with blood tests.
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by moorhosj on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:26PM (#19931507)
Don’t we already regulate what can be put in foods via the FDA?
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by homonculus1 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @04:03PM (#19932531)
"Don't we already" is an excuse, not an argument.
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by moorhosj on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:07PM (#19933903)
There were food and drug products that were unsafe, “adulterated” and mislabeled. This created health problems in the United States so we created the FDA to regulate food and drugs.

Do you have any argument why they shouldn’t do this?

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by homonculus1 on Friday May 17, 2019 @02:54PM (#19942422)
Toxicity and fraudulent misadvertisement is a far cry from sugar being bad for you if you choose to eat too much of it.

And to reiterate my point, advocating X based on "don't we already Y" instead of the actual merits of X is a big part of how dangerous slippery slopes occur, even if Y was a good thing.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by moorhosj on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @01:14PM (#19983237)
In this case, the poster said:

"Education, public awareness, these kind of initiatives I can get behind. Regulation of food intake, is a step too far."

I merely pointed out that the thing identified as "a step too far" already exists. I wasn't advocating for anything so there isn't a slippery slope to fear.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by kennywinker on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:46PM (#19931739)
Education, as you suggest only works for some percentage of the population who have the time and wealth to learn what is good for their body and pay for it. Without government regulation you’re basically abandoning some percentage of the population to eat whatever crap has the lowest price and highest margins. We already accept and benefit from regulation on what can be put in food - insect parts, inorganic additives, etc. - but those regulations have not kept up with advances in food tech.
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by ieie92ndjrj on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:27PM (#19931525)
You might be surprised to learn the government does “tell us” what we can eat by defining what can be sold.

Thanks for keeping us safe from government boogeymen though

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by EpicEng on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:35PM (#19931601)
I doubt the GP is unaware of food regulations. Like pretty much everything else in life, what matters is degree and nuance. The government saying that e.g. milk must meet a minimum level of XYZ is not the same as the government telling us that we can no longer drink milk at all.
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by kennywinker on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:49PM (#19931782)
Regulations about preservatives and sugar added to bread would fall under the first category: minimum level of XYZ, not the second category: banning bread.
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by jniedrauer on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:39PM (#19931648)
We already regulate dangerous, addictive products like cigarettes. Why not regulate dangerous, addictive products like potato chips or soft drinks?
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by nsxwolf on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:17PM (#19932104)
My body, my choice? Or is that only for some things?
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by ieie92ndjrj on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:32PM (#19932217)
But that’s the point: your choices are food products that are allowed under regulations.

People are dragging out this paranoid fantasy where Uncle Sam is literally spoon feeding you.

When tacitly he’s enabling you to spoon feed yourself his choices.

People seem really convinced the next step is a government assigned personal health manager.

Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by chrisco255 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:29PM (#19932203)
We don't really regulate the number of cigs that someone can smoke a day.
Re:Study Finds Ultra-Processed Foods Drive Weight Gain by ieie92ndjrj on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:49PM (#19931773)
Trying to understand how they got onto the government forcing us to eat a specific set of foods from the original comment which to my read was about food regulations (the food supply chain being a byproduct of those).

I mean just cause you CAN view it from the perspective of concern that some G-man will show up every morning to check your pantry doesn’t mean one is on topic, or peddling reasonable discourse.

Yes, be on the lookout for government overreach. Sure. Immediately invoking paranoid nonsense and individualism (which ends being heavily constrained by social norms anyway) is just bizarre