News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by wycy on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @03:22PM (#19922785)
On the subject of counter-intuitive effects in traffic engineering, it also seems that adding more lanes to a highway actually makes traffic flow worse. Whenever a car changes lanes on a highway, a small traffic "shockwave" propagates backwards some distance, and more lanes -> more cars crossing more lanes -> more traffic.

Anecdata: I live in DC with its notoriously bad traffic. The highways 395 and 495 have 4-6 lanes each and tons of traffic. On the other hand, the George Washington Parkway has just 2 lanes and carries a large volume of vehicles between 395 and 495, but has very little in the way of its own traffic (except in the event of an accident, of course). Traffic only really occurs on the GW at the junctions with 395 and 495 since the X95s don't have the capacity to receive all of the GW cars at-speed. Whereas the X95s will get random backups for seemingly no reason, and at all hours of the day, backups on the GW generally only occur at the ends.

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by naikrovek on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @03:36PM (#19922934)
Playing "Cities: Skylines" on PC and growing your small village into a metropolis will teach you a lot of things about traffic. More options for cars are usually not good for traffic flow.

The drivers in that game don't crash, and otherwise their behavior is greatly simplified, but each vehicle in that game has a start and a destination, and you can follow delivery trucks as they deliver packages and then go back to the Depot to pick up more. It's very fascinating, and may offer us some small window into the kinds of things that traffic engineers deal with without trying to find or write traffic simulation software.

And, of course, there are mods to give the player (the Mayor) greater control over lane usage and where stop signs and traffic lights are placed and how they operate. Doing things wrong will quickly result in localized gridlock.

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by ptmcc on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @04:14PM (#19923275)
The biggest flaw in C:S traffic flow, even with the popular traffic improvement mods, is that routes and lane choices are pre-calculated when the vehicle departs and don't really take into account alternative routes/lanes or current traffic load very well or at all. You quickly run into issues where you'll have a 3 lane road that has 99% of the cars backed up in one lane while the other 2 are wide open. Coincidentally it kind of mimics an induced demand problem, but for the wrong reasons.

Of course having every vehicle continually recalculate and optimize its path is computationally prohibitive. Given the limitations it does a pretty good job, though!

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by naikrovek on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @04:37PM (#19923502)
The vehicles aren't situationally aware, you're right. Nothing beyond basic "go when the car in front of you goes, and stop when they stop" kind of thing.

That said, there is a non-zero percentage of human drivers that do the same pre-calculated route and lane selection.

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by dawnerd on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @04:44PM (#19923579)
I found that frustrating too - all the cars piling up into one lane. I'm sure there's some stuff they could have done to pre-calculate and have some "randomness" in there to use the other lanes. There was a plugin, might still be, that kind of fixed it. Maybe I should fire it back up and see whats all new.
Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by mywittyname on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @05:17PM (#19923858)
Isn't this how most of us operate? I almost always take the same route to work, regardless of traffic.
Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by ptmcc on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @06:30PM (#19924415)
Route, perhaps (though I personally like to mix it up), but if the right lane of a 3-lane highway is backed up due to an offramp that isn't yours, I imagine you'd move over one lane to get past it! That's what doesn't happen in C:S, unfortunately.
Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by snarf21 on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @04:24PM (#19923372)
You are absolutely right about the shockwaves. It is also weird that going fast and tailgating actually create slowdowns and make traffic go slower. By not leaving room to slow down, any minor lane change can cause a huge ripple of hard braking and now there is a backlog until everything accordions forward again. I wish newer cars had a constant beeping when you are 10 feet from the person in front of them at 65 mph. We'd actually see better traffic flow.

As for parkways, the better flow is because they don't allow trucks. Variance in the speed of cars is what causes traffic. Obviously this is true at on/off ramps. There is no way X95 can take two lanes of high-speed flow of cars into their already packed flow. For parkways with a lot more hills, you can still get slowdowns but these happen almost exclusively just before big hills and at exits to bigger highways (and occasionally at busy on ramps with short merge areas).

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by joshuak on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @05:25PM (#19923927)
People always talk about driving with gaps[1], but I've yet to see a simulator show how detrimental/beneficial these strategies are to individual drivers.

It feels like a hawks and doves style ESS (evolutionary stable strategy) problem. It appears to me that the strategy that eliminates the overall negative affect for the group (avoid creating phantom stop signs, by gapping or "always in the middle" strategies) is necessarily unstable.

The benefit to any single driver who does not follow that rule becomes increasingly high as more and more others do follow the rule. Even to the point of ignoring a beeping car I should think. I certainly feel the negative effect driving behind someone who creates a gap as more and more cars merge in front of them. In the pathological case the driver who insists on a safe interval between cars will make no progress at all.

1: (CGP Grey) https://youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by Noumenon72 on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @10:49PM (#19925733)
You say you've observed it, but it doesn't make any sense. If you go 5mph slower than the speed of traffic, you will continuously open up a gap. You never need to slow down farther than that. The cars merging into the gap wouldn't be merging if your lane wasn't faster than their lane, so there's no reason you would have to slow down even farther. What you perceive as repeated slowing down will only happen if you sped back up to match the speed of the car in front of you after opening the gap.
Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by joshuak on Thursday May 16, 2019 @04:47AM (#19927231)
I don't think you've considered what you are saying. You're not describing a gapping strategy, you're just describing a slower driver (i.e. slower traffic). There is no question that a car consistently driving slower than ambient traffic speed is a net drag on overall throughput. In any single lain of traffic all cars are bound by the slowest car. If you drive 5 mph slower than the car in front of you then the car behind you must drive 5 mph slower still to continually produce gaps behind you. As the video illustrates introducing a slower driver is one of the things that creates phantom stop signs.

Of course you must maintain speed. The point of a gap is to allow for adjustments without the hard breaking that would create a phantom stop sign. That is the overall intent of the system. Move the most people as expediently as is safe from point a to point b. The best way to do this is to avoid speed differentials, being slower then ambient traffic speed creates a speed differential.

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by Noumenon72 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @10:00PM (#19935510)
That's not true about the second driver behind me, because people are not pulling into his gap, because his lane is going 5 mph slower than the other lanes. So he establishes it once and is fine.

This is more of a thought experiment to show that you never have to keep slowing down to zero even if for some reason people continually enter your gap. I barely observe people entering my gap at all in practice, because all lanes are generally going the same speed so there's no benefit to it.

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by hedora on Thursday May 16, 2019 @12:26AM (#19926113)
Because you insist on the gap, your lane is 5mph slower than the other lane (because people pull in front of you after passing). Assume the other lane is doing 50 (65 mph speed limit, but there is congestion).

That lowers the throughput (number of cars that complete a trip in your lane) by ~ 10%. Also, the faster lane is now probably moving closer to your speed behind you than the 50mph you observe (because you are causing cars going 45mph to cut off cars going 50mph that lane).

The arrival rate of cars won’t change because you chose to go slow. So, if the road can handle 10,000 cars per unit time with normal congestion, it can now handle ~ 9000. That means per unit time, there are 1000 new cars sitting in the stop and go backlog that you single handedly created by creating the gap.

This has been shown time and time by traffic simulations. It only takes a small handful of slow drivers to create massive backups.

Also, the number of traffic fatalities is proportional to the difference in speed between the fastest and slowest car, so, statistically speaking, by being the slowest car, you are murdering people.

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by Noumenon72 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @10:10PM (#19935577)
The reason I am going 5mph slower in this thought experiment is because a continuous stream of cars is merging in front of me from the other lanes. (What the OP called the 'pathological case'.) They are the reason the lane is slower, and because they are not in the other lanes, those lanes will be 10% faster.

With the pathological case being so benign, the real life experience is even better. You might get a car moving in front of you once a minute, and usually a few seconds of slower accelerating or coasting is all you need.

To me the thing that really slows down traffic is people not moving left to let onramps merge. I think that's because they are afraid of missing their exit because no one is leaving gaps.

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by thrower123 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @12:43AM (#19926193)
> I wish newer cars had a constant beeping when you are 10 feet from the person in front of them at 65 mph. We'd actually see better traffic flow.

I just drove a Ford Edge that had this. It is a little overeager about what it thinks is an impending collision, but it works alright.

The adaptive cruise control is a mess though. In theory, it is supposed to match your speed to the vehicle ahead if they are slower, so you don't have to pay attention. In practoce, it has the potential to be a great contributor to congestion. With dumb cruise control, you can push slowpokes to get out of the way or at least speed up; the adaptive cruise control seems to match speed at a distance where the driver ahead doesn't get the signal that they are obstructing things, and they continue bumbling along.

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by rpiguy on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @03:28PM (#19922853)
For highly congested areas the increase in the number of lanes is done to accommodate the number of cars on a given route (optimize for capacity). If you can physically fit four times as many cars on a route, but it results in only being able to move at 1/3 normal speed you are still moving more cars over time than a two lane road.
Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by linuxftw on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @03:29PM (#19922866)
It's not random, it's poorly engineered entrance and exit ramps. In order to maintain traffic flow, cars need to be able to increase to traffic speeds on on-ramps and decrease on off-ramps. Much have the beltway system put entrance and exit ramps where they definitely don't belong. Thoroughfares for in-city traffic also don't exist, the interstate has taken that role. To compound the problem, often times entrance and exit ramps are the same piece of pavement.
Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by JamesBarney on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @03:35PM (#19922923)
I think a lot of the counter-intuitive effects in traffic engineering are due to traffic arbitrage. If you make a path much better more people will take it until it's as bad as all the alternate routes.
Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by rocqua on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @04:12PM (#19923241)
It can actually be worse. This is called Braess's paradox [1]. The relevant part is: "an extension of the road network may cause a redistribution of the traffic that results in longer individual running times."

Further down in the Wikipedia article is an actual example.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox

Re:Almost every speed limit is too low (2017) by Retra on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @03:28PM (#19922850)
If a lane is shut down due to an accident, it is better to have five spares though.