> - Money doesn't create happiness ( and what they don't mention: being short on money makes unhappy, my 2 cents)

I had this exact conversation with my uncle and dad the other day. It was basically along the lines of, "Those who say money doesn't make you happy have never been low on money trying to meet bills." Perhaps we're really cynical, but I feel this is a good point that many things don't address (though I am aware of the studies that show money does increase happiness, up to a point, around $75k USD if I remember).

That said, "Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy the things that make me happy."

As someone that grew up very poor, worked very hard for a long time and got very lucky, to then make a lot of money:

I like to look at it as the power of money to most people isn't what it adds to your life, it's what it takes away. No more fears about bills, no more worrying about being broke or stressing over the monetary concerns. That/those are the first plateau. Once those things are gone some people are going to be a lot happier, but sometimes money wasn't the actual cause of your unhappiness; just one of many causes amidst the pile. You might be more happy, or less stressed, neither, or both.

These concepts are nebulous at best, but I'm curious how one measures an increase in happiness versus a decrease of stress. Likely a fair amount of comorbidity at play.

"No more fears about bills, no more worrying about being broke or stressing over the monetary concerns"

Sounds like heaven!

It changes everything. I'll refrain from tying it to happiness and instead just say that it increases the quality of life.

The trope of "money doesn't create happiness" applies only to people who already have their financial freedom. I completely agree that aspiring to get a bigger house or a nicer car when you already have a big house and a nice car is pretty shallow and speaks to an underlying inferiority issue that more money won't cure.

The rest of us on the other hand would be anywhere from a little to much much happier if we had student loans, mortgages, kids' educations, and retirement savings all taken care of.

The prospect of having to slog through life in a glacial pursuit of these things fills me with dread. For me there isn't much of an option beyond becoming successful as an entrepreneur. It's not even so much about the money but having complete ownership. Having to work until 65 running a mildly successful business that I built seems like it shoild be much more gratifying than slaving away to enrich others.

> The trope of "money doesn't create happiness"

It's not a trope. It's backed by research. As an earlier poster says well-being research suggests the perceived increase in happiness plateaux after some figure around $75k. In fact, too much money can isolate you from your friends and family who stop being able to relate to you or feel you always have one over on them, or you move to a posh neighbourhood in a massive gated house and no one comes to visit any more...

> fills me with dread. For me there isn't much of an option beyond becoming successful as an entrepreneur

Utter rubbish. You should take this course. Believing that the only way to be happy is slogging your guts out on a moonshot to become a multi-millionaire is a sure way to stress yourself out and become unhappy.

There's more to life than money. In our industry it's easy to make more than enough for a comfortable life. Many people I work with take large breaks from work. That is real freedom. What would you do if you made all that money anyway? Maybe just start doing those things as soon as you can - you've got to find something to fill your time, either working for someone else or doing things that interest you.

> Having to work until 65 running a mildly successful business that I built seems like it shoild be much more gratifying than slaving away to enrich others.

That may be true. But that statement sounds like you wouldn't be doing it for the money rather the intrinsic satsifaction. That's far more valuable after you've hit that point of not worrying about bills, etc.

That study was nearly 10 years ago. A newer study[0] found that the number is closer to $105k.

[0]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-017-0277-0

Or it can buy experiences, it doesn't make you appreciate the little things that make it awesome though ;)

In the same reasoning, most of my friends have no "lack of money", in the sense that they are'nt filthy rich. But they earn good money.

I have noticed that almost none of them are jealous of each other. Which are truly the best friends to have.

Don't get me started about people who complain all the time, but just want to talk the talk, without doing the walk. They won't bring joy, ever.

Some people are a lot richer, so what. I would also never went to trade places with someone who is a millionaire suddenly and have all their friends change because of that single thing.

Appreciating what you have is not such a rare thing ( outside of IT). But it's almost never mentioned here, everyone wants to start the next unicorn, while forgetting that a solid business/job keeps you more sane.

I agree with you. Money can't create happiness on its own, but as a reasonably happy person, I'd much prefer to have more money than less.

I struggle with the last one, I make time for family and two somewhat close friends but I have a really bad tendency to cut off/not keep relstionships that have no obvious immediate or even long term benefit be it similar interests etc. I always have to change gyms every 8 months because it after that it becomes too awkward further avoiding conversations with people you see most of the week. If I talk to him once, that means I would have to talk to/greet him everytime i visit. If i did that for just a dozen people thats 25% of the time spent in the gym gone like that. This thought process takes over in many other situations including the workplace. I once avoided this guy at an agency I worked on a clshort term contract, he wasn't on my team/area so I used to kind of ignore(?)/not strike a conversation. I found out 4 months later he was the CEO on the project retrospect meeting. All four of the other contractors were given extensions except me. I know 100% it wasn't performance related because my team lead fully expected me to be back but told me it was a decided by "top management".

I am in my late 20s and have asked one women out, a few years ago (fwiw she turned out to be a lesbian). For me to approach a women she would have to be wife potential. Why would i waste time & money with some women with no potential (with me)? I have friends that do this and it confuses me, they they theyd never wife her and complain about wasting a whole weekended wasted together, but do it just for the sex. I've tried sex and it was unbelievably and depressingly underwhelming. Sex with condoms is a huge scam on men. I'd much rather jerk off at home.

This cavalier, selfish and aloof attitude is one I am 100% limit my career and happiness but I really doubt I will change.

> I always have to change gyms every 8 months because it after that it becomes too awkward further avoiding conversations with people you see most of the week. I

Just say hi and talk a minute in the beginning. Put your headphones in.

When you go heavy on the bench, you can ask someone at least.

-- I think a long time ago, I used to be like you ( not that extreme). But I started going out and quickly changed my behavior. The small overhead of saying hello and being nice in general, makes it less obvious that you filter out successful people ( sometimes).

Or the small talk with other people, when something is happening. You are the point of reference. Not someone who never says hello

Getting a raise from an adequate salary to a great one made it possible to move to the city and eliminate my commute, buying me more hours and energy for exercise and lower-friction access to my friends.

Money buys urban real estate, and urban real estate buys happiness.

thanks for putting it clearly and succinctly. I think that's a much better view than what a lot of self improvement books offer.