Tractors are behemoths of modern machinery. I have relatives in the tractor industry, as well as relatives who are farming, and this has been coming for a long time.

Tractors are ridiculously expensive. I was talking with a relative who sells them, and some of them cost more than pretty nice homes in the city we live in (as in, we live in a large metro area, and they can easily cost more than a very large, attractive home).

These things aren't just tilling dirt like you might have in the 20s either, or like you might with a garden in your backyard. There's all sorts of modern planting and harvesting methods, and tractors are sort of the engine that drives a lot of this machinery (which is very large). The technology involved can be complex, and it's often tied to aerial surveillance, soil monitoring etc.

The intellectual property problems associated with Deere and other manufacturers go beyond DRM per se. Deere over the last couple of decades has tried to force smaller sellers to abandon other manufacturers. I.e., "as of X date, if you continue to carry equipment from other manufacturers, we will no longer supply you with Deere equipment." This is extraordinarily anticompetitive when you consider that these pieces of equipment are extremely expensive, and that the dealers are geographically very sparse. So, it's hard on the farmers because if the dealer does become Deere-exclusive they might have to travel far to find alternatives, and it's hard on the dealers, because they are forced to put their eggs in one basket even when the buyers might want (or need) choice.

I've seen families split apart actually in cases where one part of the family is on the dealer or farmer side, and the other is on the Deere side.

Deere really has become anticompetitive in many ways, not just with DRM. If there ever was a case for antitrust enforcement in my opinion, it would probably be with Deere.

This comment might apply to cars 15 years from now.

Tesla is likely the closest to "car as a service" but it has been coming along for a few years across the entire auto industry.

> This comment might apply to cars 15 years from now.

I'm already wary of this, personally, and it's one of the major reasons why I won't even consider buying a new car these days.

My understanding is that ford is really really bad for this as well, requiring incredibly expensive computers, software packages, and training to repair even basic things without it pissing off the ECU

>My understanding is that ford is really really bad for this as well, requiring incredibly expensive computers, software packages, and training to repair even basic things without it pissing off the ECU

As a family who has owned Ford cars and trucks for 25+ years, this is news to me. Do you have a link or anything to substantiate this? It would be surprising if true.

An example of how Ford tried to shut down third party repair efforts: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/01/ford-tries-shut-down-t...

This is Ford suing someone for, essentially, trying to break their DRM. While I don't agree with the practice, it's Silicon Valley 101. I guess the ICE dinosaurs can learn new tricks after all?

But I don't see how it relates requiring "incredibly expensive computers" as the original comment stated, nor do is it unique in any way to Ford. I can only speak from personal experience, but I've owned a ton of cars from all makes and models, and my Fords have been average or better when it comes to repair frequency/cost. I'm sure it's partially a byproduct of the vehicles being relatively "plain".

This is why I will never again own a Ford. (That, and the endless recalls.)

And the bits falling off the car within the warranty period, that turn out not to be part of the warranty after all. In my case: a transmission brace that broke under light use in under a year on an F150.

Or the aluminum hood on my car that has a massive paint defect that isn't covered by the paint warranty because it needs to "rust" through for them to cover it. They added that clause to the warranty agreement knowing that aluminum will never rust, rather than fixing an issue they knew about for over a decade.

I just finished up the second of back to back Ford leases this month (2010 F-150, 2014 Fiesta ST) and didn't have a single issue with either car. 8 years, 2 cars, only oil changes, tires and brakes (on the ST).

I guess your mileage may vary, literally.

I know ford is currently having SERIOUS issues with a certain automatic transmission essentially exploding at the slightest provocation.

I think Volvo is trying out a "car as a service" feature where you pay a flat monthly fee (lease) but if your car breaks down or needs service they just give you a new one.

Edit- Here is the link in case I missed any specifics: https://www.volvocars.com/us/shopping-tools/purchase/care-by...

I think its already relevant for Tesla. You can't buy replacement parts and wrench your own fix, you have to buy a totaled Tesla to pull parts from and you void your warranty, unlike any car ever made in the past 100 years but right in line with the tech sector anti consumer practices we let slide.

A worrying trend. Especially considering Tesla seem to take months to fix even basic fender bender problems.

How is that fundamentally different from a leased vehicle?

What I am wondering: Has that changed what you laugh about now? Like, what people warn about our future now?

As far as I am concerned, this is exactly what I expected, and I am seriously surprised anyone could be surprised by it. Like, I was not necessarily thinking specifically about tractors 15 years ago, but I think it was just obvious that DRM would be used to gain control over devices that are run by software, and obviously pretty much all devices sooner or later would be run by software, and as such, of course, tractors would be, too, sooner or later.

Completely agree. I also wasn't thinking about tractors (or really vehicles for that matter), but in the mid-2000s I was helping build "tamper proof" devices for my employer. Listening to Richard Stallman talk I would think he was crazy. Then I saw how much we raked in providing "support" for the tamper-proof devices when they needed service. It became quickly apparent that the rest of the industry was just a little bit behind.

We are headed to a crazy world. Cory Doctorow's message on the War on General Purpose Computing is more relevant than ever. For anyone that hasn't seen his Cory, he's got numerous videos on Youtube. Check out some of his talks at Google.

When most non-farmers think of tractors, they think of something like a dumbed-down car with a lot of power. It's an engine that drags a tool through a field.

The idea that something like that could be locked behind components that can't be fixed or replaced cheaply is astounding to them.

I feel like it's the same as asking Henry Ford what he thinks about all the electronics in today's cars. It'd blow his mind.

Well, yeah, sure, but I guess I was assuming people who knew what DRM is, not necessarily the general public--if you didn't even know what DRM is, it's not that surprising you probably wouldn't have an idea of how it would be used.

Great question!

For me, yes. I do think differently about these warnings.

We are in an interesting time. How we resolve these basics are going to impact people and the planet for a very long time.

It also impacts what I do. One thing is I am extremely reluctant to depend on things I cannot repair. Grew up rural, and repair was a basic skill in life.

I am thankful for it. Has saved me so many times.

Right to repair is a major issue, close to my heart.

You wouldn't had you been in the market for a tractor 15 years ago. Unfixable black box electronics has been a part of farm machinery for quite a while now.

The reason people talk about working on older cars/trucks/tractors as easier, isn't because they are to incompetent to work with the electronics, it's because for the most part they are a black box.

Most wouldn't have even known what these meant.