> Vegans own smug and 'ethical checkmate' inanity

...the loud, obnoxious ones you know about, perhaps. Most vegans and vegetarians in my experience (hopefully including myself) don't try to preach, lecture, or abuse...but you likely don't even know their eating habits as a result.

Likewise - are you even hearing from actual vegans/vegetarians? Or are you hearing repeated stories that curdle outrage?

When I was in high school I wrote an essay about how ridiculous it was that I could be insulted for daring to hold a door for a woman when I hold doors for everyone! It was a couple of years before I realized I never HAD been insulted, I had simply been told I could be. This has happened with any number of items in my life: the outrage far exceeds the actual experiences.

I won't deny there are _some_ smug and self-righteous vegans out there - there are annoying people everywhere. But have you actually encountered the "community" (to use the word from above poster)?

I don't dislike vegans, nor dispute motivations, and I'm fully aware that 90% of them are as normal as can be.

I'm de-facto a vegan every second day, without thinking about it.

I do dispute however the OP's point 'non-vegans' splitting hairs on vegans 'a thing' or 'the thing'.

The 'finger wagging and moral high ground posturing' is almost entirely a function of the vegan side of the equation.

For example: GMO's, as someone noted below, it's 'not a vegan issue' - of course not strictly, but it's the same crowd of 'food concerned people'.

'Organic, GMO, Vegan' overlap quite a bit - this is where the discussion and marketing (as a result of demand no doubt) is happening.

>Vegans own smug and 'ethical checkmate' inanity

I maintain that the Vegan Police from Scott Pilgrim are one of the finest satirical concepts I've ever seen in fiction.

You do realize they exist online, right? ;) People are usually way nicer in person.

definitely got a good laugh from that. Nobody is safe from being made fun of!

I understand that you want the butter to be fine, but the dairy industry is pretty seriously abusive to animals. Just because you want that to work out doesn’t mean it’s actually ethically sound.

> Most of us just want a croissant made with butter and would like for it to work out in some reasonable way for everyone including the cow.

Vegans (I don't know what vegan-leaning means, but I'm referring to most actual vegans here) want this as well. The difference is that they recognize that this is largely untenable.

I disagree with the adjective “largely.” Vegans would not want anything to “work out for the cow” if butter from cow’s milk is the product that someone wants. It’s completely and absolutely untenable as long as the butter is a product of/from an animal.

If it’s vegetable fat based butter or genetically modified yeast making milk from which butter can be made, that’s not an issue.

GMO's have nothing to do with veganism.

unfortunately, anti-GMO, anti-vax, anti-science etc. is becoming more and more synonymous with the vegan community. The "what other beliefs does this vegan hold" bingo is becoming more and more disillusioning.

And yet one of the most successful vegan companies recently genetically engineered soy beans to produce heme.

With the introduction of ethical meat riding on the back of GMO & science I bet we'll see an emergence of very different forms of veganism.

I've slowly reduced my meat & dairy consumption, but haven't eliminated it. This year I have almost entirely eliminated cow meat from my diet (probably ate ~100-200 grams this year for cultural reasons), but am highly anticipating the impossible burger 2 coming to local restaurants.

> I've slowly reduced my meat & dairy consumption, but haven't eliminated it.

Good for you! More people need to realize this is an option. Too many in the vegan community and elsewhere push a "all or nothing" approach which is harmful to the movement overall. People don't do well with totally changing their lifestyle overnight. Slow and steady is the key to long term adoption.

Except (in cases) when GMOs are tested on animals.