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Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by Guest42 on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @09:47PM (#19864652)
The goal is to build housing that is actually used as housing as opposed to a vehicle for speculation.

Legislative policies determine the type and terms of the "market economy" that is lived in.

If today's luxury apartment had a decent probability of being tomorrow's affordable one it would not have demand. Unless of course one assumes that luxury buyers are seeking to lose money.

Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by ultrarunner on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @09:53PM (#19864684)
Brand new luxury housing stays brand new forever?
Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by jbay808 on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @09:58PM (#19864704)
It becomes affordable after an extended period of its price decreasing, or appreciating slower than inflation... Which we're all waiting to see!
Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by bobthepanda on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @10:11PM (#19864773)
Well, how long is tomorrow?

Housing that becomes affordable by the time I am dead is not really "affordable" housing for me.

Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by closeparen on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @10:50PM (#19864955)
A market with more homes per housing seeker is more likely to contain one for you.

As long as that ratio is less than one, some people are excluded. Price is what that looks like in a market. Under central planning it’s typically lotteries and waiting lists.

Supply/demand balance in the region is much more important than the characteristics of any particular unit, and that’s what pro-growth activism is targeting.

Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by Consultant32452 on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @10:24PM (#19864834)
It becomes approximately fifo. Oldest or otherwise least desirable housing becomes affordable housing as demand is met with newer more desirable housing being built. But if you're never building new housing, nothing gets pushed out the bottom to become affordable.
Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by eastWestMath on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @11:12PM (#19865049)
That would make sense if location didn’t matter and people couldn’t renovate buildings.
Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by Consultant32452 on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @11:16PM (#19865064)
That's just noise as long as construction keeps up with or outpaces demand. The problem is some cities have held back construction for decades, so it will take significant construction to get to the other side of the supply curve.

As a thought experiment, what if you doubled the supply of housing units in Manhattan? Or 10x? 20x? I have a hard time believing housing prices would remain high.

Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by BurningFrog on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @11:40PM (#19865171)
I hate to be the one to tell you, but it's not all about you.
Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by reaperducer on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @11:29PM (#19865119)
It can. There are millions of houses and condominiums across America that are worth more now than when they were built.

Housing isn't like a car. It doesn't depreciate as soon as the first person moves in.

Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by CryptoPunk on Thursday May 09, 2019 @01:40AM (#19865689)
>>The goal is to build housing that is actually used as housing as opposed to a vehicle for speculation.

You're completely ignoring Econ 101.

Housing that is used as housing and housing that is a vehicle for speculation are not mutually exclusive. Rental properties produce rental income and appreciation for their owners. More people looking to make money from real estate investments results in more capital investment going into expanding housing stock, and thus more rental supply, which drives down rental rates.

The places which suffer the most from lack of affordable housing tend to be those that put in place the most impediments to profit-motivated investment. In other words, they ignore basic economics.

Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by matchbok on Thursday May 09, 2019 @05:41PM (#19872719)
Agreed! We need laws to limit speculation.
Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by wtvanhest on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @09:57PM (#19864699)
Speculators do lose money on average.
Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by skookumchuck on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @10:00PM (#19864712)
Speculation just means flipping it to someone who wants to live in it.
Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by erikpukinskis on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @10:18PM (#19864806)
It can also mean:

- Holding an asset until users become more desperate

- Taking an asset off the market in order to drive up the price of other assets in the category

- Buying an asset to hold, if reliable bonds aren't available in your locale, or there are limits to what assets you can book locally

Not to mention ulterior motives:

- Money laundering

- A vehicle for bribes

Money is quite complicated actually.

Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by skookumchuck on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @11:07PM (#19865028)
A dwelling has zero intrinsic value. Ultimately, it only has value if someone is living in it. Having real estate sit empty can only be a temporary affliction.

Supply & demand - it's the law.

--- Buying real estate to just hold is almost always a losing proposition because of taxes and the time value of money. It is not like a bond, because bonds have guaranteed payouts. Real estate fluctuates in value, quite a lot. It's very easy to lose pots of money in real estate.

Thinking that users will become more desperate is hoping that the government will prevent supply from increasing, or that customers don't simply find other solutions. I suggest looking up what happened when the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market by buying up the supply. Buying up your competition to drive up prices pretty much never works unless the government makes entry of competitors illegal or very hard.

Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by sandworm101 on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @11:35PM (#19865146)
>> Ultimately, it only has value if someone is living in it.

I got kicked out of my unit vancouver unit (3500$/month) because my landlord wanted to sell. In Vancouver's market a unit with a renter is worth LESS than a vacant property. Clearing it out to repaint and upgrade a few faucets is worth more than the rent income. That's how twisted the market has become.

Professional landlords like paying tenants. Investors see them as potential problems, irritants and impediments to redevelopment or construction.

Re:New Taxes and Higher Density Aren't Fixing Vancouver's Ho... by zaroth on Thursday May 09, 2019 @12:05AM (#19865274)
Selling a unit with a tenant is hard, even if the new buyer is planning to rent.

Typically before and after the sale there is work being done on a unit that can’t be done while it’s occupied. Also the new buyer might have different screening they want to do for a prospective tenant, or may want a different lease term, etc.

It’s worth losing a couple months rent to be able to show the unit when you want, to have it cleared out so the buyer can inspect it, and sell it without a lease attached that they may not like. It also limits the buyer pool to sell it already leased to someone a prospective buyer doesn’t know and doesn’t want to know.