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Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by k__ on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @08:35AM (#19858204)
How many plants are needed to counter this?
Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by Filligree on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @08:42AM (#19858258)
Far too many to be plausible. You'd need to live in a terrarium. Which would certainly be nice, but it's a lot of maintenance...

There are plants that do pretty well at air filtering, though not as well as a HEPA filter... but for CO2, they won't absorb more than they can use. This means you need dozens, and also that you'd need grow lights to keep them photosynthesizing as fast as possible.

I've seen an office that was built like that, and it was actually a very nice experience. The owner enjoys spending as hour gardening each evening, though, which is important.

Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by JohnJamesRambo on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @10:29AM (#19859103)
It's far more than you could ever plant, I suspect. I've been in legal marijuana grows in houses where it is nearly wall to wall massive growing plants under many 1000W bulbs and the CO2 still goes up when people go in the house and start breathing and moving around.

When we see science fiction movies and there is a tiny little area with plants that is supposed to be providing the multi-person crew with CO2 scrubbing and O2 generation, I think the size needed is vastly underestimated.

>A human breathes about 9.5 tonnes of air in a year, but oxygen only makes up about 23 percent of that air, by mass, and we only extract a little over a third of the oxygen from each breath. That works out to a total of about 740kg of oxygen per year. Which is, very roughly, seven or eight trees' worth.

from- https://www.sciencefocus.com/planet-earth/how-many-trees-doe...

Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by dredmorbius on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @10:08AM (#19858909)
A typical person exhales just over 1kg of CO2 daily. You'd need emough plants to fix about the same amount of CO2 from the air, under indoor, shaded conditions.

https://www.reference.com/science/much-co2-human-exhale-3f8c...

The fastest rate of carbon fixation by any plants are photosynthetic algae eds, which fix u to 4.4 kg of carbon per square meter per year, or 16.3kg CO2/(m^2 * yr).

http://carbon.ycombinator.com/ocean-phytoplankton/

That works out to about 22 m^2 or 240 ft^2 of algae.

Most land plants offer at best about 1/10th this rate, in full sunlight, and far less in indirect, partial, or shaded light.

A lot.

Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by avar on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @04:53PM (#19862816)
The source you're citing talks about 4.4 kg estimated per m^2 for algae in the open ocean, and notes that the maximum known rate is 9.16, so around 9 * (44/12) = 33 kg per m^2/yr converting C to CO^2, or around 11 square meters.

In terms of CO^2 sequestration it doesn't seem implausible to fit a farm of that area in something the size of an apartment..

Of course the energy/water use would be insane, hopefully you could funnel sunlight in, or just open the window. But as a thought experiment that ignores the economics of it think more space station than apartment.

Critically, you need on the order of N m^2 of sunlit area on your culture, not N m^2 of floor space. If you image search "phytoplankton culture" you can see that people grow these in bottles or thin plastic bags under artificial lighting, maximizing the surface area.

You can easily fit 11 m^2 in one square meter like that under standard 250 cm ceiling height. Just have a stack every 20 cm.

Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by dredmorbius on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @06:03PM (#19863429)
Note that the article refers to both carbon and carbon dioxide fixation. CO2 weighs more than the carbon it contains, by a lot. Carbon has an atomic weight of 12, CO2 a molecular weight of 44 (12 + 216), or just shy 4x the mass of the carbon* component of CO2.

The 4.4 kg I gave was carbon, the 16.3 kg CO2. Your 9.16 kg refers to CO2, fixed per square meter per year, which is less than the CO2 fixation value I'd used. That is, http://carbon.ycombinator.com are making a more conservative estimate of about 56% the maximum observed rate. That increases rather than decreases the required area.

At 9.63 kg/(m^2yr) you'd need 39.8 m^2, or 429 ft^2, of algae to offset one person's CO2 exhalation.

Using GNU units:

    You have: (1kg/day)/(9.16 kg/(m^2*yr))
    You want: m^2
            * 39.873602
            / 0.025079249
    You have: (1kg/day)/(9.16 kg/(m^2*yr))
    You want: ft^2
            * 429.19589
            / 0.0023299385
    You have: 9.16/16.3
    You want: %
            * 56.196319
            / 0.01779476
Apologies for typos in GP post. Android soft-keyboard stinks.
Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by avar on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @07:05PM (#19863788)
I understand the difference, but perhaps I misunderstood the article. What it says (and you're correctly referring to) is:

> We will be conservative and say that our algal beds fix 2.5 kg of C per square meter per year and 2.5 kg of C works out to 9.167 kg of CO2.

But then a couple of paragraphs later:

> the maximum CO2 assimilation rate of algal beds which we will say is 9.167 kg of C per square meter per year.

I.e. they first mention a conservative "2.5 kg of C" in the context of the ocean, followed by a "maximum rate". 9 kg of carbon is around 33 kg of CO^2.

Maybe they meant "kg of CO2" in that second paragraph, it's certainly suspicious that it repeats the same 9.167 number, but why would they call that number both "conservative" and "maximum assimilation rate", hrm...

Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by dredmorbius on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @09:31PM (#19864573)
That looks sloppy on their part. Point for my OP was just to note that a couple of potted plants wouldn't keep your apartment breathable.
Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by jtms on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @01:53PM (#19861296)
Wow - imagine the price of that space in an expensive urban center apartment like NYC
Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by dredmorbius on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @04:44PM (#19862728)
This is a chief reason why urban agriculture is at best of limited viability.
Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by 0xcde4c3db on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @08:54AM (#19858356)
Depends on the plant and other aspects of the environment, and actual numbers are hard to find. Also, you need the plants to actively be growing; their steady-state metabolism just temporarily captures carbon and then releases it again.
Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by jandrese on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @11:58AM (#19860106)
To get an idea of what you need check out the Biodome and Biodome II projects. They were massive structures chock full of plants to sustain a small handful of people, and it wasn't enough.
Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by drivers99 on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @07:23PM (#19863911)
Biosphere 2 you mean. Looks like they did two self-sustaining attempts there.

Bio-dome is a movie based on the premise.

Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by graeme on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @09:39AM (#19858678)
Doesn't work. Try exhaling near a co2 monitor and you'll see why. Humans emit a ton of co2, relative to indoor space size.

Ventilation is the only solution.

Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by jtms on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @01:51PM (#19861285)
Also don’t take my word for it, but I remember reading that the viney/dangley kind are better than average for certain pollutants (and they just look really nice dangling from a ledge or window sill)
Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by jtms on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @01:50PM (#19861270)
Some is definitely better than none for more reasons than just air scrubbing, but I believe one of the sibling comments stating “too many to be practical” is probably (and unfortunately) correct
Re:Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber? by Obi_Juan_Kenobi on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @02:23PM (#19861522)
If you want this to work at night, you need a CA (crassulacean acid metabolism) plant.

Practically speaking, that means a bunch of succulents.