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Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by chii on Thursday May 02, 2019 @10:38PM (#19815032)
> Monopolies of what, exactly?

Monopoly on platform reach. The reach of facebook, or the reach of youtube, twitter etc, is so high, that if you want to disseminate a message, those _must_ be the platforms you use. It's as if they own the radio spectrum, and you have to acquiesce to what they demand to use said spectrum.

Of course, i am free to use smoke signals to send my message, but who will receive it?

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by candybar on Friday May 03, 2019 @12:24AM (#19815524)
If you can use facebook, youtube or twitter to reach lots of people, how could any one of them be a monopoly on reach?
Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by speedplane on Friday May 03, 2019 @04:12AM (#19816492)
> If you can use facebook, youtube or twitter to reach lots of people, how could any one of them be a monopoly on reach?

Even though they are competing for attention, they each use different mediums. As an analogy, it's like only having one radio station, one TV station, and one magazine. There needs to be dozens of each for there to be a true marketplace of ideas.

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by candybar on Saturday May 04, 2019 @03:02PM (#19828497)
This isn't what the previous poster said - reach is something you can get on any of these platforms (and more), yet that was pointed out as what each has a monopoly on.

Can you define a market each of them has a monopoly over? There are many popular video apps and many popular social media apps. Exactly what does each of them have a monopoly on? A network effect is not a monopoly. Being the exclusive provider of convenience for some specific group of people is not a monopoly.

For example, in some religious town, it's possible that the only way to reach a certain group of people on a Sunday afternoon is to go to the church. This does not mean the church has a monopoly on reach. Likewise, it's possible that where you live, the only place you can get a meal at 2AM is Aunt Ann's Diner. This doesn't make them a monopoly. Nor is the only sushi restaurant in town a monopoly. We live in a world of differentiation - every service provider that has a reason to exist provides something that others don't. This doesn't make everyone a monopoly.

Also, on none of these platforms is it trivial to build a large audience. And it's certainly possible to build a large audience through other means. For any given platform to have a monopoly on reach, people must be spending so little time outside of this platform that it's impossible to reach them otherwise. That's not a world any of us lives in. Even Youtube accounts for a very small fraction of time spent on watching videos and Facebook and Twitter are two of a large number of popular social networks. Snapchat, WeChat, iMessage, Weibo, TikTok, QQ, VK, Reddit, LinkedIn and Line to name a few.

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by toofy on Friday May 03, 2019 @08:03AM (#19817586)
There are many many video content hosting sites, there are countless twitter clones, and there are a crazy amount of sites doing things like Facebook with profiles and such. Because people are choosing to use mainly those doesn’t stop anyone from using others. This isn’t like a utility or phone company where people literally had no alternatives. No one is stopping any of us from connecting to Mastodon for example and even better, no one is stopping us from setting up our own Mastodon servers and connecting that very server up to the wider Mastodon network... There is no Monopoly here.

Because more people choose to eat McDonalds burgers than the local dive bar burgers, does this mean McDonalds has a monopoly on burgers?

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by Zeppin on Friday May 03, 2019 @09:14AM (#19818083)
Again, it's about reach.

My local dive bar can serve me burgers whether it has a customer base of 1.000 or 1.000.000. A social network, however, cannot function without hundreds of millions of users. Otherwise it's an anti-social network.

As a result I can post my video to DailyMotion instead of YouTube but how am I going to build a following without engaging with Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter?

These networks require mass user engagement to be effective which precludes a myriad of competition. I don't think breaking these companies up as Elizabeth Warren suggested is the correct solution because it fundamentally handicaps their ability to function. But I think there does need to be regulation around how they do business which sadly does not exist.

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by humantiy on Friday May 03, 2019 @10:25AM (#19818722)
> There are many many video content hosting sites, there are countless twitter clones, and there are a crazy amount of sites doing things like Facebook with profiles and such.

I think the point is yes there are alternatives however given the size/reach of FB, YT, and twitter even those alternatives really aren't competing with them. They own the market share for what do and even many of those alternatives (ie mastodon) post on twitter or FB news or service updates. I'd say the alternatives don't even make up 5% use over FB, YT, or twitter.

Is it a monopoly in the normal sense of the word probably not, but the issue remains that alternatives are niche and truly don't directly compete. I think though as things like people being banned, creators being demonetized or the numerous other things that have happened in the last year to show users of these platforms the problems; we might see these alternatives pick up ground as these people with followings and clout get kicked off or decide to find alternatives. They get too big for their own good and in the process they will end up fragmenting their communities causing some to take alternatives serious.

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by notSupplied on Saturday May 04, 2019 @02:36AM (#19824821)
The claim is that Fb is most definitely not a monopoly on access to political speech. People are not stuck in an information vacuum the moment Facebook bans their favorite content. People who want to access Alex Jones can still do so easily.

What Facebook IS a monopoly of is getting your content to go viral. I argue this service is not speech. Which is why I oppose web hosts and cloudflare censoring content, but support social networks banning users. When web hosts do it, users who WANT that content can't get it anymore. When social networks ban people, they merely can't find new eyeballs that never specifically requested that content.

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by SantalBlush on Friday May 03, 2019 @12:26AM (#19815542)
>The reach of facebook, or the reach of youtube, twitter etc, is so high, that if you want to disseminate a message, those _must_ be the platforms you use.

This isn't true though. Alex Jones can disseminate his message through countless other websites, which have their own users. This is really just advocating for equal exposure of opinions, which isn't a free speech issue.

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by miemo on Friday May 03, 2019 @10:22PM (#19823932)
it's not equal exposure at all, it's equal opportunity for exposure.

i can post a comment on FB and get 0 likes, that doesn't give me equal exposure to the latest nike video on their page.

denying opportunity for exposure is giving that platform the ultimate authority on what shouldn't be able to be exposed in society, if society is reliant on that platform.

i don't want alex jones to have exposure, but i don't want an exec deciding what's next on the chopping block. a page suggesting publicly available employee salaries? they shouldn't have that power

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by SantalBlush on Friday May 03, 2019 @10:30PM (#19823966)
Society in the United States is in no way reliant on that platform. If it were, then we would be in agreement.

If we're talking about internet providers, that's a different issue, since they are a user's conduit to the entire web. Those absolutely should not be able to choose which accounts to favor.

Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by wolco on Friday May 03, 2019 @02:09AM (#19815966)
Not free speech but open platforms.
Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by BubRoss on Friday May 03, 2019 @11:24PM (#19824226)
There are plenty of places on the internet more lenient than the biggest websites. Check out voat and see what happens when people banned from other platforms go to the same place. It isn't pretty but at least they aren't a blight on other groups.
Re:Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWar... by ZeikJT on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @08:22PM (#19854740)
So if I wanted to play basketball professionally in the US then the NBA should be obligated to hire me because no other basketball platform has the reach they do?