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Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by beatgammit on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @06:34PM (#19743230)
There definitely is a difference between someone accidentally tracking dog poo into your house vs someone doing it intentionally; in the first case, you all them to clean it up, and in the second case you break the friendship and/or seek criminal prosection.

Likewise for big companies. If a company is acting badly, you need to figure out if it was intentional. In both cases you seek damages, but your approach to making sure it never happens again will be very different.

Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by scotchmi_st on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @06:54PM (#19743346)
> There definitely is a difference between someone accidentally tracking dog poo into your house vs someone doing it intentionally; in the first case, you all them to clean it up, and in the second case you break the friendship and/or seek criminal prosection.

But the point is that this assumes you're able to tell the difference between the two cases- intent is often a really hard thing to prove. And often discussions about whether Facebook acted in good faith when it did certain things neglect the fact that they made a big mess everywhere, that needs sorting out regardless of their intent.

Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by perfunctory on Thursday April 25, 2019 @03:23AM (#19745795)
> hard thing to prove

It is and yet the legal system is busy with these sorts of proves all the time. e.g. if you have a professional insurance and caused some damage by mistake - that's covered, if you cause damage deliberately - it's not.

Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by dhimes on Thursday April 25, 2019 @07:47AM (#19747044)
But if we can reduce that to a second-order effect we will be better off. For example, if you made the rule ('regulation') that "shoes shall not be worn in the house" then you can avert the situation and never need to try to determine motivation.

I think this is basic good that regulations- thoughtful ones- serv. Because if Facebook makes money by being evil, then their competitors will be pressured to do the same in order to stay in business. But by leveling the playing field you can help prevent these monopolies from getting so big and powerful.

We can't rely on businesses to act "morally." That ship has sailed. We have to compel them to behave, not by social shaming but by making non-compliance painful and repeated non-compliance an existential threat.

Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by sarcasmOrTears on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:45AM (#19746462)
It's hard to prove but for some strange reason they always have the resources when it's time to come after the little guy and they don't when it's the big guy and it's also more obvious
Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by onlyrealcuzzo on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @06:53PM (#19743343)
Right.

That's like saying there's not a difference in involuntary manslaughter and murder.

There is. Intent is very important. That's WHY so many people focus on the intention.

Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by tty2300 on Thursday April 25, 2019 @12:19AM (#19744949)
A logical reason to care about intent is that malicious people will likely do it again and can not be trusted in the future where as people who make a mistake will avoid doing it again
Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by sagarm on Thursday April 25, 2019 @02:51AM (#19745651)
For a corporation, "avoiding doing it again" means dedicating resources to preventing a repeat of that type of "mistake": audits, privacy reviews, etc.

The choice not to dedicate those resources up front was an intentional one.

Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by sharkjacobs on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @11:17PM (#19744676)
Analogies break down due to the difference of scale between individuals and the biggest companies in the world.

If a company makes an "innocent" unintentional mistake, it can be attributed in part to their choosing not to put resources towards detecting and avoiding that kind of error

Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by kerng on Thursday April 25, 2019 @01:15AM (#19745207)
Repeated behavior probably has to be taken into account also, like if your friend does it 10 times - you'll want to break up that friendship.

It's hardly an accident at that point anymore, but intentionally or (intentionally) carelessly done. That's where we are with Facebook I think.

[dead]
Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by exergy on Thursday April 25, 2019 @02:01AM (#19745433)
Nah. You're getting too invested into it. Not much Joe Public can do methinks
Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by cjslep on Thursday April 25, 2019 @02:13AM (#19745500)
Getting too invested? In what, the society that surrounds each individual? I don't think that is possible.

There is a difference between empowerment ("Joe Public can't do much to change society") versus investing (literally putting money into local businesses, demanding better behavior, etc).

I have met a lot of my American peers who believe their individual liberty absolves them of responsibility to the society they live in, which is entirely opposite: their personal liberty is granted precisely because of the society they live in.

Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by tripzilch on Thursday April 25, 2019 @10:56AM (#19748817)
> Likewise for big companies. If a company is acting badly, you need to figure out if it was intentional.

I disagree that it's likewise for big companies. Corporations like that don't really have intentions; every intention is fundamentally about profit. Profit is in fact both its intention as well as its reward/punishment.

It's really the only way to properly "communicate" with an entity like that. A corporation is not a human being. And just like it's not useful to try to reason with (or attribute human-like intention to) a cat, it's basically futile to do so with a corporation.

Any time that human-like reasoning seems to apply with a corporation, it really only happened because the reasoning happens to align with its profit intentions.

Edit: this is less true for smaller companies, but for a multinational it's pretty much a given.

Also, there's something in the way that large companies are structured, that actual accountability (like you'd find with humans or small groups) seems to disappear and slip between the gaps of hierarchy. Lacking accountability, attributing intent becomes guesswork.

Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by dplgk on Thursday April 25, 2019 @12:46PM (#19749940)
Seems to be intentional as a system for taking a user's password, scanning their contacts and then uploading them requires specifically built tools with intention. Stepping in dog poo and tracking it into a house requires only shoes that you already wear and walking that you already do. That doesn't require any new intentions or tools to be built
Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by firstfewshells on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @06:52PM (#19743337)
Criminal prosecution for dog poo? You must be kidding me.
Re:Facebook Expects to Be Fined Up to $5B by FTC Over Privac... by julianj on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @06:57PM (#19743363)
Wouldn't the intentional smearing of feces over someones carpet throughout their home qualify as vandalism?