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Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @01:31PM (#19684586)
Throwing it out there—when I'm dead, you are totally allowed to resuscitate my brain. Better than being dead.

Please make sure I am supplied with some good books to read, if at all possible.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by saulrh on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:18PM (#19685064)
Strongly agreed.

The "what if they wake me up to torture me" scenarios seem like wild catastrophizing to me - if someone has the political power and resources to develop special brain-torture gear, rez me, and keep me alive so they can torture me, they have the political power and resources to kidnap me and torture me with knives and fire as long as they want. It'd probably even be easier for them to do it to my physical body, right here and right now.

It sounds like the real worry is "what if I wake up in a dystopian future". And, of course, once you look at that, the expected value calculation is trivial. Consider the set of futures which have sufficiently-developed research and economy to systematize the operation of and systematically execute on rezzing random frozen brains. Consider the set of futures which have that property but are also dystopian enough to rez brains for the sole purpose of torturing them. Recall that these things are in tension; the kinds of irrationalities that lead a civilization to do that kind of thing will impair them in other ways, sometimes significantly - enmity from less-extreme polities, toxic culture leading to structural inefficiency, etc. You have to reach really far to find that region of the configuration space of possible future worlds.

So look at the expected values. Yes, being tortured for a while would suck. But being alive again, and possibly even biologically immortal, has the expected value of an entire new life. And the probabilities say that being rezzed is far more likely in a good future than a bad future. Literally every stage of the expected-value calculation says that being rezzed can be expected to be a win.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by human20190310 on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:33PM (#19685197)
Given enough time, anything with a non-zero probability of happening will eventually happen, and when you're dealing with the prospect of immortality, "enough time" is a given.

Even if the optimistic scenario is true for your first 100 "rezzes", the 101st civilization that takes over after the 100th collapses might not be so nice.

EDITED TO ADD: Moreover "the kinds of irrationalities that lead a civilization to do that kind of thing" is confusing a value judgment with rationality. An extremely predatory civilization might maintain its edge through cruelty, the same way that cats seem to play with mice before killing them. That would be evil, but rational.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:36PM (#19685220)
So does that one bad experience cancel out all the good ones?
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by human20190310 on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:47PM (#19685306)
I don't know. I'm just disturbed by the power imbalance between the people doing the reviving and the beings that are revived.

I hope the optimistic scenarios are true.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by vcavallo on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @03:49PM (#19685847)
what about “everything is fine forever” as a possible thing with a non-zero probability of happening (which then does happen)? how does that confound the calculus?
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by taneq on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @11:58PM (#19744851)
It has to be fine every single day to be fine forever. It only has to be not fine once to not be fine forever. These dice get rolled every day.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by saalweachter on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @04:19PM (#19686141)
This is basically the argument that turned Elan Morin Tedronai to the dark side.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by fwip on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:48PM (#19685315)
And if the dystopia sucks, die again.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by nikolasavic on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:08PM (#19684989)
In Blindsight by Peter Watts, there are a group of revived soldiers that serve as mercenaries. Upon dying, they are 'resurrected' and immediately given a choice to go back to being dead -or- pay off the resurrection fee by serving as a zombie soldier for 8-10 years. If they survive their service, they are free to continue living in whatever mangled state their body currently is. They unaware/unconscious while serving, so they won't have any memory of the horrors that they commit or are acted upon them.

It would be strange to return to your life after dying 10 years ago, but I'd probably take the deal.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by Shivetya on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:00PM (#19684913)
Bad movie, not so great book, but aren't Stalker's from Mortal Engines basically the same thing. Dead and brought back to serve.

I will be curious if they can not only resuscitate but also influence what is left? plus would it matter if your a victim of a seizure? would there be anything left that we see as a human personality to bring back? I ask that from experience of losing a middle aged uncle to a seizure, it raises your body temperature sufficiently to kill/wipe the brain. You can coma them to stop the activity but bringing them back up from that is no guarantee anyone is home

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by fmihaila on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @01:33PM (#19684606)
> Throwing it out there—when I'm dead, you are totally allowed to resuscitate my brain. Better than being dead.

Are you comfortable with the possibility that those who are reviving you might not be doing it for your benefit?

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @01:34PM (#19684627)
I think so. Still better than being dead.

(If they're explicitly trying to cause me pain, that would be a no.)

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by fmihaila on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @01:51PM (#19684809)
> (If they're explicitly trying to cause me pain, that would be a no.)

That is my point.

I imagine that, if this was a possibility, quite a lot of people would be ok (or even demand it) to make available "150 years after natural death" sentences, so that they can apply it to their newly deposed dictator. Then, once the new rulers become entrenched in power and begin to like it, they can start using it on their political opponents. Prisoner exchanges between warring countries could become quite interesting. Quite likely, some people might feel inclined to hang on to their loved ones forever. Remember Terri Schiavo [1]?

Feel free to imagine more interesting scenarios. If you don't start to shudder, you're just not thinking big enough. You can watch this Black Mirror episode [2] to get you started.

This gives a whole new meaning to the expression "killer application".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

[2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5058700/

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by Majestic121 on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @01:43PM (#19684720)
That's the point, with this kind of technology, one can imagine unlimited tortures without possibility of dying to be relieved.

And the technology is here, it's only a matter of time before this kind of abuse starts happening.

I'm not saying we should not continue researching this, as the possibilities are endless, but let's not put the pitfalls under the rug

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by jerf on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:03PM (#19684943)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFe9wiDfb0E

(This is a relevant YouTube video to the discussion, not spam.)

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by ganeshkrishnan on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @01:45PM (#19684751)
There won't be any pain as brains don't have nerve endings. But you won't have any other senses too. Just pitch blank, deathly silence, floating for eternity.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by coldtea on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:07PM (#19684982)
Nerve endings receive pain. The brain "feels it".

So it can easily be made to feel pain -- just pass in the same signals the nerves would have.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by bdamm on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:55PM (#19685373)
"floating", "silence", and "black" are sensory states. There's no assurance that a brain in a pool would feel any of these. It's hard to know what a brain will project as it attempts to construct a reality matching that for which it evolved.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @05:43PM (#19686732)
But it's reasonable to use these terms since they're the best approximations/guesses we have.

Also, people who become blind later in life often describe it as "black", so I think it's reasonable to assume that's how the brain would interpret lack of sense.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by hackinthebochs on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @01:52PM (#19684824)
Your brain can't hurt, but presumably a phantom body could be made to hurt by providing the right neural stimulation.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by probably_wrong on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:42PM (#19687080)
> Please make sure I am supplied with some good books to read, if at all possible.

Seeing as we don't have full eye transplants yet, it seems possible (at lest with near future tech) that they could resuscitate your brain but not your other I/O peripherals, including your eyes. To misquote Harlan Ellison, you may have no mouth with which to scream.

It seems to me that your average case would involve either total darkness or the worst case of phantom limb ever. Or even worse: they might give you eyes, but no one to turn the pages for you.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @06:51PM (#19687123)
Well, that's why I specified "if at all possible." :)

I'd imagine that if we do establish "IO" that "text" would be the first/easiest type of data. It might be encoded in a strange way, but, well, I'll have plenty of time to adapt...

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by xfitm3 on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:29PM (#19685155)
I can't relate to this at all. When I'm dead, I'd like to cease. I have no desire for my brain to outlast my body.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by bdamm on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:49PM (#19685331)
I'm with you. Once dead I'd prefer to stay dead. It's actually a comforting thought to know that my life will end. For me it brings meaning to the life that I do still have.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by jddj on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @03:17PM (#19685558)
Me either.

The comments in this thread to the tune of "anything is better than being dead" actually kind of took me by surprise.

I can conceive of a point where technology and society has developed to a place where bodies are replaced after death with something that's worth "living" in again, but that's a long way from wanting to be a brain in a vat purely because it means I'm not technically dead.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by dpcx on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @04:06PM (#19686016)
Will you know you're dead though? If they have the technology to bring your brain back, they probably have the technology to make your brain think you're still in your body and you woke up.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by xfitm3 on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @05:39PM (#19686709)
I'm alive now and my wishes are to not experience this.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by badger_bravo on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @05:51PM (#19686792)
Are you though?
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by paraschopra on Thursday April 18, 2019 @03:14AM (#19689301)
I’m sorry but this feels like an ignorant view. Brain relies on sensory information coming from inside the body - hunger, bodily awareness, skin temperature, etc.

Without these signals, we have no clue whether you’ll be in immense confusion, anxiety, sadness or bliss. It could very well be much worse than death,

Are you ok with that gamble?

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by Wowfunhappy on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:09AM (#19691096)
> Are you ok with that gamble?

Yes.

Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by TaylorAlexander on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @01:45PM (#19684737)
Well let’s make sure we get consent from the research animals too.
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by mkagenius on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @01:51PM (#19684816)
How would we know if you wanted to change your decision after you are dead?
Re:Pig brains partially revived four hours after death by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday April 17, 2019 @02:12PM (#19685013)
How would you know if I didn't change my decision? Why is being dead the default choice?

The best course of action is to rely on what was previously requested.