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Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by olliej on Friday April 12, 2019 @09:01PM (#19650385)
I feel a simpler solution(given many American politicians hatred of worker rights) would simply be that you have to pay any employees bound by non compete clauses for the period of the non compete clause.

And they should be paid for 8-10 hours a day, 7 days a week - the non compete clause prevents them from working for a “competitor” every day of the week.

That will quickly get rid of non competes that aren’t actually necessary for anything other than wage suppression.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by vostok on Friday April 12, 2019 @09:44PM (#19650537)
People get around that by splitting pay into salary and bonus. Then they just pay salary during the non-compete.

Other fun things are enforcing the noncompete at the employer's discretion. You never know if you're out for a month or a year and they can change their mind mid way through.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by lsllc on Friday April 12, 2019 @11:14PM (#19650885)
As with pensions [for civil servants] it should be the average of the last 3 years of compensation (e.g. W-2 take-home).
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by Godel_unicode on Saturday April 13, 2019 @12:03AM (#19651060)
That's not how it works for civil servants either. Bonuses (signing and retention) are not factored into high-3. It's salary plus locality, not w2.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by nitrogen on Friday April 12, 2019 @09:59PM (#19650595)
Bonuses also make pay lumpy, so employees wanting to quit have to wait for the next bonus date or walk away from X% of their income. Bonuses are also often late, so X is never 0 no matter when you quit.

The median in the sibling comment wouldn't work because unless bonuses are paid monthly the median will just be the base salary, so you'd have to do mean.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by olliej on Friday April 12, 2019 @10:20PM (#19650679)
you could tailor it as appropriate, but also there should be legislation that limits the ability to call "bonuses" bonuses rather than regular income - if nothing else I believe withholding on bonuses is 50% vs. a sane rate that is closer to what you'd be paying if you're on a minimum-is wage job.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by lumost on Friday April 12, 2019 @11:52PM (#19651029)
How about simply not having non competes
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by jeffdavis on Saturday April 13, 2019 @12:04AM (#19651068)
Bans are a big hammer and have unintended consequences in areas not given adequate consideration.

Requiring payment for the duration of the non-compete is perfect. You can tweak the specific requirements up/down as problems arise.

In most practical situations, requiring payment (of almost any amount) will eliminate non-competes, because employers generally don't like paying for labor they can't use.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by ummonk on Saturday April 13, 2019 @03:43AM (#19651628)
Bans against non-competes in California work just fine and have contributed to creating a more dynamic innovative economy.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by crdoconnor on Saturday April 13, 2019 @07:40AM (#19652394)
>have unintended consequences

What negative unintended consequences?

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by vkou on Saturday April 13, 2019 @12:39AM (#19651152)
Requiring employers to pay for non-competes will be functionally equivalent to a ban. Nobody in their right mind will pay tens of thousands of dollars to enforce one.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by thedufer on Saturday April 13, 2019 @12:59AM (#19651195)
Not true. This is called "garden leave" in the financial industry and is quite common. I believe the theory is that a lot of a trader's knowledge becomes obselete quite quickly, and it is cheaper to pay a former employee for a year or two then to let them use their strategies at a competitor.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by cco on Saturday April 13, 2019 @01:25AM (#19651254)
Then it sounds like it wasn't worthwhile to begin with if the only risk was tens of thousands of dollars.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by omeze on Saturday April 13, 2019 @01:00AM (#19651199)
(I disagree with the downvotes here - this is a reasonable position if you have no context)

In practice, non-competes that pay out 200k+/yr are quite common in finance (think firms like 2 sigma, Jane Street). They will pay to keep people from going to competitors, mainly to keep their strategies and implementation details reasonably protected.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by olliej on Friday April 12, 2019 @09:49PM (#19650560)
so you make it their median income for the past X months, which I had considered a given.

I also don't mean in response to a company enforcing it. A company would be required to pay that amount for the period covered. The employee could choose to offer them an out if the found a much better paying job, but that would necessarily not be at the discretion of the company.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by chucksmash on Friday April 12, 2019 @09:42PM (#19650532)
You're right. A requirement that non-competes come with a "garden leave" type arrangement would straighten this right out.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by alexrtan on Saturday April 13, 2019 @03:36AM (#19651595)
There's a much simpler solution. No non-competes at all. They only serve employers and create small market failures.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by jondubois on Saturday April 13, 2019 @04:04AM (#19651692)
I agree. Non-competes should be seen as a direct contradiction of antitrust laws.

It's a blatant violation of freedom and it hurts the economy.

It's wrong regardless of skill level. If the worker is skilled, then it is their right to choose what they do with it. If investors have the right to invest their capital in two competing companies at the same time (or hundreds of competitors; as it happens when they invest in stock indexes like S&P500), then definitely a worker should be allowed to work for two competitors at the same time.

Workers should be allowed to put themselves in positions of leverage using their skills as a bargaining tool.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by olliej on Saturday April 13, 2019 @11:47PM (#19657494)
The problem is that people see the noncompete clause, and they're told about the non-compete clause, most people do not know/understand that it isn't enforceable.

I have had noncompete clauses in my employment contracts in CA, where they are not enforceable. I know that they're not, but I work in tech where must people are aware of bullshit like this being attempted.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by crdoconnor on Saturday April 13, 2019 @07:44AM (#19652407)
It blows my mind that there are people who defend capitalism on the basis that competition is an unalloyed good but will still defend noncompetes.

I don't see how these positions are reconcilable.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by sarcasmOrTears on Saturday April 13, 2019 @01:32AM (#19651267)
Thing is that people should accept a salary that covers the conditions in a contract, including non-compete clauses. Sadly most people don't recognize this, so it seems coercitive action like the one you propose is needed.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by jakelazaroff on Friday April 12, 2019 @10:19PM (#19650678)
How is coming up with regulation around non-compete clauses (and then further regulation attempting to close loopholes such as the ones mentioned by sibling comments) simpler than just outlawing them?
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by fiblye on Friday April 12, 2019 @10:25PM (#19650712)
Most people don’t know whether they’re enforceable. Businesses will do anything they can to intimidate people and simple unenforcement doesn’t really do much.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by Broken_Hippo on Saturday April 13, 2019 @05:05AM (#19651893)
There are a few positions where non-competes are understandable. It is easier to carve out strict guidelines for having a none-compete than it is to exempt low-wage workers or have a comprehensive list of things that qualify for a non-compete.

So instead, make non-compete clauses really unattractive for your average employee. This would include things like paying the average wage over the last year, including any bonuses (or paying the average bonuses or prorating them another way), continuing to pay benefits such as health insurance contributions so the employee doesn't pay more, and things like that. I'd even be willing to put a penalty so the company would have to pay a bit more if their pay rate doesn't meet the industry standard in the area.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by olliej on Friday April 12, 2019 @10:32PM (#19650742)
How many low wage workers are aware that a non-compete clause is not enforceable in CA? Many contracts have it present, and businesses like to call attention to them, making it perhaps non-obvious that they are meaningless?
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by jakelazaroff on Friday April 12, 2019 @11:44PM (#19650988)
Sure. But how do your regulations solve that? Presumably businesses would still be free to not mention the pay requirement in the contract. And even though they'd be obligated to actually pay if it came down to it, many people wouldn't be aware of that — bringing us back to square one.

You could require them to mention it, but that's just a more complicated version of banning it outright.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by chongli on Saturday April 13, 2019 @12:17AM (#19651099)
But how do your regulations solve that?

The difference is the matter of liability. In the regulation case, a business found to be in arrears could be hit with a very large judgement. On the other hand, if non-competes were simply banned and employees were unaware of the law, they could still suffer under the chilling effect of an unenforceable clause in their contract. To then discover the problem later and show damages in court would be much more difficult.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by olliej on Saturday April 13, 2019 @11:49PM (#19657503)
Until you get a class action law suit on the grounds, also (in light of your comment - companies that are intentionally screwing people are going to continue to screw them hoping to be ahead on balance) I'd add significant penalties for delayed payments.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by skybrian on Friday April 12, 2019 @09:33PM (#19650504)
Yes, and you could make that rule even simpler. Minimum price for a noncompete is $1000 a month until cancelled. (Picked as a round number; could be different.)
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by olliej on Friday April 12, 2019 @09:54PM (#19650580)
$1000/mo is nothing, it has to be tied to actual income, or some minimum clamp, which ever is higher.

Otherwise you get something like $4k/mo in the middle of Alabama, or $1k/mo in SF one of which is gratuitous, the latter is not enough to pay rent.

If you made it $10k/mo it would be more reasonable.

Just having a minimum and so a forced cost to NCs isn't enough, because you have to compare it to the cost savings it implies.

Take my $1k/mo in SF concept (noting that noncompetes are already not enforceable in CA). That isn't enough to pay rent, so it doesn't matter if you're guaranteed that income when you leave, because its not enough to live on. That means despite 1k obviously being more than 0, from a NC victim's PoV there isn't one - they cannot afford to quit, so their wages can still be easily suppressed.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by mjevans on Friday April 12, 2019 @11:23PM (#19650923)
Also don't base it on a fixed number as a minimum. It has to automatically track inflation.

A good start would be: the GREATER of the 75th percentile of wages for a given job category, and if multiple possible categories, the highest paying one that COULD apply OR the average take home pay over the last [3 years or during the time worked if shorter].

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by skybrian on Friday April 12, 2019 @11:38PM (#19650967)
Yes, it's a minimum. Like with minimum wage, the exact number could be different (or raised over time) and many people could negotiate something higher. But even if too low, it would establish that noncompete agreements aren't free.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by lucidguppy on Saturday April 13, 2019 @07:29AM (#19652350)
Anyone who doesn't work for a long time is doomed when they do try to look for a job. This solution is just another problem.
Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by TheSpiceIsLife on Friday April 12, 2019 @10:12PM (#19650651)
I feel a simpler solution(given many American politicians hatred of worker rights)

How does the rest of your comment follow on from that?

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by olliej on Friday April 12, 2019 @10:30PM (#19650735)
Many republican politicians have demonstrated contempt for low income workers, so this would not mean "regulating employment contracts" but rather saying that you have to pay for the full extent of a contract.

This framing makes it easier to maintain the image of hating unions/perks/whatever, but is also simpler to implement: there are legitimate reasons that you may not want high level/executive members to not work for your competitors. Whether or not you agree with that is moot: there are enough lawyers in the legislative branches to believe that it's necessary. A law like this would not be an outright ban, but rather would result in companies reducing their use of NCs to just those employees where the information that had was actually valuable.

Currently NCs have no downside for a company, so there is no reason you would ever not use one: They allow suppression of fair market wages, and literally have no associated cost. This would mean that there is: You want to put a 12 month NC on your janitors? Well you now have to pay for a 12 month vacation. Immediately - NC clauses don't say you have to work for X months for the NC to come into effect. If you work for a company for a week, you are bound to an N month NC, and so a law like this would require a company pay for that time - again, making a company actually think about whether an NC is actually necessary.

Re:Connecticut moves to help low-paid workers hurt by noncom... by TheSpiceIsLife on Friday April 12, 2019 @10:38PM (#19650769)
Ah, yep, I get it now.

Thank you for your swift and thorough response.