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Re:Coinbase Debit Card by londons_explore on Friday April 12, 2019 @03:39AM (#19642823)
The general pattern here is "Keep the balance of your current account 'invested' in bitcoin until the moment you spend it".

Can't that model be expanded to include any tradable commodity? Why can't I get a 'Gold debit card' or a 'Nasdaq Debit card'?

Would there be a market for this?

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by patio11 on Friday April 12, 2019 @04:57AM (#19643202)
This is an extremely available offering from brokerages, including Charles Schwab and Interactive Brokers. The magic word in the industry is "integrated cash management", and the mechanism is usually "You use the debit card as normal, it results in drawdowns against either your cash balance or your marginable equity as appropriate, and (if you get into margin territory) you repay at your leisure by adding new money or liquidating stocks of your choice."

Brokerages love this product, because being a debit issuer is a great business to be in. From an optimizing-your-personal-finances perspective, most HNers should probably get a rewards card from their bank of choice; you can trivially arrange the credit card to pull from a bank account and your brokerage to push to the bank account, in the case where one's spending is materially backed by one's investment portfolio (which feels like not something people should make a habit of in most cases).

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by whitepoplar on Friday April 12, 2019 @11:26AM (#19645628)
I love Interactive Brokers, but I'm trying to figure out why people use IB's debit card, drawing from margin. I know they have the best margin rates in the industry, but it's still something, and the margin interest isn't deductible if it's not used to buy securities.

Is there a particular tax advantage that I'm not considering? I'd love to know as this sort of stuff is like crack to me.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by purplerabbit on Friday April 12, 2019 @11:42AM (#19645804)
Drawing from margin prevents you from needing to sell and rebuy securities to free up $ as needed. This means no taxable events occur, so you don't have to deal with capital gains.

It's also the cheapest possible credit you can obtain as a consumer. TBH it's so cheap that you can reasonably expect your investment returns to at least match it in the long run, so as long as you aren't drawing so heavily as to get an unhealthy leverage ratio

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by sfotm on Friday April 12, 2019 @03:48AM (#19642869)
I think it's because most vehicles for trading ownership over companies or commodities like gold have a good amount of friction to them, making it impractical to deal with them as if they were money. This might include a minimal value of a sale (e.g. a stock is worth $20 and can't be divided further, although there are systems for owning a fraction of a stock) or trading fees. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is easily divisible into small fractions.

Not saying there might not be some way to make it work, but it probably involves a lot of unnecessary risk and high transaction costs.

Seems like it's just too much headache without any of the purported benefits that bitcoin has over traditional money.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by chrisco255 on Friday April 12, 2019 @03:49AM (#19642876)
Well stocks can't be sold in tiny tiny fractions. If you have 5 shares of Amazon and 6 shares of Apple...which stock does your debit card provider sell to cover your latte? Also stock markets don't operate 24/7, crypto does.

Gold is hard to sell in tiny fractions as well.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by patio11 on Friday April 12, 2019 @05:07AM (#19643264)
Well stocks can't be sold in tiny tiny fractions.

n.b. Not true; a lot of retail brokerages are happy to deal in fractional shares. A common use case is implementing dividend reinvestment, where you might have the 10 shares you own issue a dividend entitling you to .005 shares; many retail brokerages can trivially support this.

The "How?" is potentially interesting: over the entirety of a broker's book of business, there are a lot of holders of e.g. SPY, so the broker (or their internalizer) just buys (pick a number) 713 shares, assigns fractions correctly, and keeps a tiny bit of the last share on their own account. This comes out in the wash, because retail customers are extremely lucrative to service at scale, and having to be ~$100k long various publicly traded equities to keep the tollbooth running is cheap at the price.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by simias on Friday April 12, 2019 @05:44AM (#19643419)
Beyond the point made by siblings comments about selling fractions of stocks I also want to point out that selling small amount of bitcoins or ethereum on-chain is also prohibitively expensive. I'm sure those debit card transactions won't be directly settled on the actual cryptocurrency, they'll just keep a balance internally and make big transactions on the blockchain if they need to balance their accounts. You know, like a bank.
Re:Coinbase Debit Card by chrisco255 on Friday April 12, 2019 @03:05PM (#19647984)
ETH transactions avg like 10 cents: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/ethereum-transactionfee

But also, Coinbase owns an exchange, so they don't have to commit every transaction to the blockchain, so it's peanuts for them.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by simias on Friday April 12, 2019 @03:36PM (#19648263)
> ETH transactions avg like 10 cents: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/ethereum-transactionfee

That's still significant for small transactions. Beyond that, will it scale well enough to cost only 10 cents if it becomes the new Visa/Mastercard? The transaction rate of BTC/ETH is still almost negligible when compared to mainstream payment processors.

>Coinbase owns an exchange, so they don't have to commit every transaction to the blockchain, so it's peanuts for them.

My point exactly. It's not a Bitcoin card, it's a Coinbase card, the cryptocurrency aspect is tangential. This is not cryptocurrency going mainstream, it's the mainstream taking over cryptocurrency because it's just so much more convenient to have a Visa card than a Bitcoin or Eth wallet.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by chrisco255 on Saturday April 13, 2019 @12:35AM (#19651143)
At 10 cents it is cheaper than debit card transactions. And credit card processors charge 2-3% on average for transactions... maybe as low as 1.5%.

Visa is more convenient today but it took decades for Visa to get to the scale and scope and convenience it has today. If people start parking more money in crypto and using crypto credit cards it's only a matter of time before merchants start accepting direct payment from coinbase wallets. At that point, Coinbase can bypass Visa and charge a fraction of the fee for facilitating the trade from USD to BTC.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by londons_explore on Friday April 12, 2019 @04:31AM (#19643069)
Presumably the card provider would aggregate everyone's latte purchases together at the end of the day and make a single transaction on behalf of all their users.

The provider could either eat the change in price over the day, or pass it back to the user by first presenting an estimated amount and then a final amount when the transaction is completed when the market next opens.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by richardknop on Friday April 12, 2019 @06:17AM (#19643542)
Well, presumably this would be configurable in the mobile app / UI so users can choose how to (order etc) liquidate their holdings in order to fund the card.

Obviously there could be some sane defaults. By default aggregate all card spending against user's margin account, every day/week/month sell the cheapest stock which covers outstanding balance (so if you spent $150, it would first sell 1 share of Apple, it wouldn't start selling Amazon until you run out of Apple shares).

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by tybit on Friday April 12, 2019 @04:24AM (#19643034)
It’s not like companies can’t come up with financial instruments to get around this.

I’d assume they don’t see a market, more than they don’t see a practical way to make it work.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by SifJar on Friday April 12, 2019 @04:17AM (#19642997)
> If you have 5 shares of Amazon and 6 shares of Apple...which stock does your debit card provider sell to cover your latte?

Presumably this would work the same way Coinbase will choose whether to sell some of your bitcoin or some of your ethereum (i.e. you choose)

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by magnamerc on Friday April 12, 2019 @08:51AM (#19644302)
You can sell fractions of 'shares' using futures products built using decentralized finance dapps.
Re:Coinbase Debit Card by gohbgl on Friday April 12, 2019 @06:27AM (#19643570)
Goldmoney offers a gold debit card: https://support.goldmoney.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000526347...

Of course when both parties are clients of Coinbase or Goldmoney respectively then the ownership of the bitcoins/gold can be directly transferred.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by Zr40 on Friday April 12, 2019 @04:36AM (#19643091)
Interactive Brokers offers such a debit card to US clients, albeit not by selling assets automatically, but by using the cash balance or a margin loan backed by the assets. You can then decide which assets to sell (and when to sell them) to cover for the payments made.
Re:Coinbase Debit Card by freddie_mercury on Friday April 12, 2019 @03:54AM (#19642911)
They've been around for a long time and haven't proven especially popular.

20 years ago I could write a check against my Vanguard mutual funds and I'm pretty sure they weren't the only brokerage that offered it.

Re:Coinbase Debit Card by kurtisc on Friday April 12, 2019 @04:59AM (#19643215)
Isn't that the bank just giving you their income stream?
Re:Coinbase Debit Card by aleh on Friday April 12, 2019 @08:33AM (#19644190)
And their risks as well.
Re:Coinbase Debit Card by sfcguyus on Friday April 12, 2019 @05:41AM (#19643406)
Glint offers a debit card for gold.
Re:Coinbase Debit Card by tim333 on Friday April 12, 2019 @06:24AM (#19643564)
And some people I know set up another https://goldexapp.com/