News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by zymhan on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:43PM (#19638394)
> On the way down, the main engine cut out. The engine was successfully restarted, but then communications were cut off, and no more information was sent back.

Definitely a terrible time to have an engine failure :/

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by ronilan on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:05PM (#19638589)
Based on the telemetry from the broadcast it seems that there was a failure at 13km that resulted in both telemetry and engine loss. When telemetry connection came back vertical speed has already doubled and it kept going up until spacecraft hit the ground. Engine was probably never restarted.

Edit1: Telemetry came back at 10k. For the next minute and a half there was uncertainty about the main engine even though telemetry clearly showed vertical speed going up fast. More then a minute later, at 5k a reset request was made.

Edit2: A minute goes by and at about 500m controller asked if there is a confirmation to send rest to JPL, another, announced that engine is on. Crash happens at that moment. 149m, 134.3ms vertical.

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by ctdonath on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:31PM (#19638864)
>900m/s horizontal.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by ghostbrainalpha on Thursday April 11, 2019 @06:41PM (#19640019)
Was the request to restart the engine made from Earth?

It seems like the landing program would want to have a feature in place that automatically restarted the engine in a situation like this.

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by karmakaze on Thursday April 11, 2019 @08:18PM (#19640682)
From the NY Times story “We are resetting the spacecraft to try to enable the engine.”

I can't tell from that if normally an engine outage would automatically restart but didn't or if the condition would always require manual intervention. I hope we get more details soon. The moon seems close enough (a few seconds), but accidents always happen closest to your destination. More automation is more complexity but it will be valuable for longer trips.

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by whoopdedo on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:10PM (#19638634)
When they said the engine had a problem the altitude was 678m and vertical velocity was 130.1m/s. After restart it was 149m at 134.3m/s. They never had a chance. Assuming those numbers were correct. A few minutes before they had lost the intertial measurement unit.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by reaperducer on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:12PM (#19638658)
then communications were cut off, and no more information was sent back.

Have any of these moon landings been done at night where people have been able to watch it happening through a telescope? Or are things so small at the moon's distance that there'd be nothing to see?

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by trothamel on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:18PM (#19638729)
It might be a stretch to call it a landing, but the LCROSS mission maneuvered a Centaur upper stage to a controlled crash on the moon. IIRC it was done at night so that telescopes on Earth could see it, but none actually did.

Actual landers tend to try to land during lunar day, to take advantage of the warmer temperatures and to have sunlight to recharge batteries.

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by aurailious on Thursday April 11, 2019 @05:46PM (#19639579)
The resolution a 10 meter telescope on Earth can make out of the moon is about 22 meters per pixel. We can yet make out the moon landing site with earth based telescope.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by dmurray on Thursday April 11, 2019 @06:50PM (#19640078)
Making a 23 metre mark on the moon seems like a natural project for some country, then. Perhaps easier than orchestrating a soft landing.

There are lunar retroreflectors about a metre across [0] that are detectable with optical equipment, for some definition of optical. But to leave a mark that can be seen from earth - to leave your tag, or an X, or a crude drawing of a penis and testes - surely that's an urge as old as art itself.

[0]https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/...

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by weaksauce on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:22PM (#19638772)
Just watched the ted talk from the woman who came up with the algorithm to photograph the black hole and she had a slide of the best picture we can get of the moon from earth and she said each pixel on that picture could fit something like 600,000 oranges. don't think it's possible that we can see a spacecraft landing on the moon with what we have.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by Hamuko on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:51PM (#19638463)
When is it not a terrible time to have an engine failure?
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by zymhan on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:54PM (#19638484)
When you're floating along on a stable orbit not about to impact the surface.

Or with more time to recover from the outage before landing. If it happens within the last minute (wild estimation) then you have little time to recover the lost velocity.

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by Hamuko on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:19PM (#19638737)
But you're still having an engine failure when the engine is far away from anyone that could potentially start mending it.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by Jach on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:44PM (#19638990)
Not an engine failure, but: "Debugging a program running on a $100M piece of hardware that is 100 million miles away is an interesting experience." http://www.flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by zymhan on Thursday April 11, 2019 @10:43PM (#19641479)
"failure" does not necessarily imply it is permanently disabled. It just means the engine stopped working as expected at some point.

Obviously they restarted it after this failure so it was not a complete breakdown of the engine.

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by Voloskaya on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:00PM (#19638542)
When you are floating along on a stable orbit the engines are off, so it's quite hard to have a failure in this context.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by ses1984 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:04PM (#19638578)
Maybe the failure occurs as you are initiating acceleration burn, while you are in stable orbit.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by nkrisc on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:20PM (#19638744)
They could fail to ignite if you were attempting a burn from a stable orbit into another orbit.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by veryworried on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:57PM (#19638523)
When you have redundant engines??

I was on a plane that had one engine fail. It was fine.

Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by StreamBright on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:05PM (#19638587)
While parked on the surface.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by duxup on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:49PM (#19638447)
Gotta be a terrible "oh man we're back up---- nope" moment :(
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by jerf on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:30PM (#19638860)
It was. Some people in the audience were clapping when the announcement came that the engine was back on, but quite a few other people were shaking their heads and shushing them.
Re:Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appear... by Taniwha on Thursday April 11, 2019 @05:42PM (#19639543)
There was mention there about IMU issues - losing track of where you're pointing, then trying to recover could mean you're pointing the wrong way (while still running the main engine ....)