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Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by panarky on Thursday April 11, 2019 @11:10AM (#19635277)
The actual indictment:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/press-release/file/1153481...

Snowden: The weakness of the US charge against Assange is shocking. The allegation he tried (and failed?) to help crack a password during their world-famous reporting has been public for nearly a decade: it is the count Obama's DOJ refused to charge, saying it endangered journalism.

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1116336550873317377

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by fixermark on Thursday April 11, 2019 @11:16AM (#19635381)
If Assange gets extradited on a charge that the previous administration wouldn't push but the administration his organization assisted in getting elected is willing to (because they don't care about such a paltry thing as "endangering the protections provided to freedom of the press by the US Constitution"), it will be the highest of ironies.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by panarky on Thursday April 11, 2019 @11:29AM (#19635565)
The US government is not a monolith, it consists of many competing factions.

It's not at all obvious which faction initiated the extradition request, or for what purpose.

It's possible this is to pressure Assange to provide evidence in the investigation into Russian influence on the 2016 election.

It's also possible this is an attempt to sequester him to prevent disclosure of information about those events.

A third possibility is that this is an attack on the press.

Even without a conviction, it will have a chilling effect on journalists publishing classified information, which is not currently a crime.

With a conviction, it will establish a dark new precedent that criminalizes much of the most consequential reporting.

And that would not be irony, it would be tragedy.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by adventured on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:06PM (#19636035)
The fourth possibility - and this one never ceases to be true in all cases when it comes to the Feds - is that the people seeking his prosecution are spiteful as hell. They are not used to not getting their way. It's extremely fearsome to go up against the US Government when it wants your neck, because they have so many ways to destroy your life all around the world. They have infinite resources for all practical purposes and can just keep coming at you.

One of the few consistencies I've seen in my lifetime across all major US Government agencies is that they seem to hold grudges forever. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about the FBI, CIA, Pentagon, DOJ, IRS or SEC. Assange, out there, is a persistent waving defiance of their perceived power and reach (and worse, right in the US sphere of influence).

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by nickpsecurity on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:38PM (#19637098)
Supporting your point are people like Poitras getting extra, random screening after publishing documentaries about US wars. They've often been vindictive given it's power-loving, egotistical, image-conscious politicians running them.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by grayed-down on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:31PM (#19636320)
Not sure why you're getting grayed down, but what you say is right on the money.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by fixermark on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:01PM (#19636667)
+1. When I was a Boy Scout, I had confirmation direct from an FBI agent that once somebody is wanted, the Agency has a long memory and a long reach.

The anecdote he shared was a fugitive fled to Saudi Arabia. Over a decade and a half, the fugitive grew a small business empire and was well-connected. In tandem with allies in Saudi Arabia, the FBI arranged a lavish party on a yacht to which their target was invited. The yacht sailed out to international waters and FBI agents apprehended him and put him on a Navy cruiser out at sea.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by Mirioron on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:02PM (#19638035)
What I wonder is how those same people in the US would feel if countries like China or Russia did the same thing openly.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by dsl on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:19PM (#19638733)
I've been involved in enough government stuff to know that resources like that don't get spent unless the target is _really_ bad.

The FBI often refers cases with single digit millions in losses to state and local, because the SAs are busy with bigger cases.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by panarky on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:17PM (#19638708)
Does it matter if they do the same thing (or worse) openly or covertly?

Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...

China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Yingying_Zhan...

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by triangleman on Thursday April 11, 2019 @09:24PM (#19641079)
Uh, you sure you linked the right article for China?
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by fixermark on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:03PM (#19636011)
It's interesting that it may have been avoidable if he'd accepted rendition to Sweden to stand trial for the sexual assault accusation, given that the previous administration was apparently uninterested in extraditing him for this charge.

He likely made the situation worse by hiding out in the embassy---he became a symbol of something untouchable by American power, and this administration cares more about that sort of perception than the previous one.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by StudentStuff on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:19PM (#19638734)
Deport to Sweden then deport to the USA was the scheme Assange was afraid of IIRC. Something about Sweden having a stronger deportation treaty than the UK...
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by henrikschroder on Thursday April 11, 2019 @05:12PM (#19639270)
As evidenced by the "Cablegate" leak, it's more the fact that when the US government tells the Swedish government to jump, the latter asks "how high?" like a trained fucking poodle.

Regardless of which side is in power.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by snowflakeandrey on Saturday April 13, 2019 @11:00AM (#19653362)
Link the leak? In this case, extraditing to Sweden on a wholly unrelated charge than to extradite to the US seems like a thing Sweden would not want because it would have hurt their credibility in future extraditions. All speculative now, ofc.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by henrikschroder on Saturday April 13, 2019 @08:46PM (#19656784)
Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_diplomatic_cable...

Sweden has pretty much zero credibility when it comes to extraditions requested by the US: https://www.hrw.org/news/2006/11/09/sweden-violated-torture-...

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by rchaud on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:43PM (#19638389)
> The US government is not a monolith, it consists of many competing factions.

The original comment said "administration", not "government". The current administration IS largely a monolith, given that nearly every high-level cabinet appointee has either been unqualified for the role or are ideologues who appear to have been hired on the basis of their loyalty to the Pres.

- Michael Flynn as National Security Adviser

- Scott Pruit as head of the EPA

- Ben Carson as Sec of Housing

- Rex Tiller as Sec of State

- Herman Cain and Stephen Moore on the board of the Fed

The list goes on an on.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by panarky on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:13PM (#19638671)
I chose to say "US government" instead of "administration" because it may or may not have been the "administration" that requested the UK to extradite Assange.

Other factions within the US government are attempting to hold the executive branch in check, and it's possible that one of these factions requested the arrest and extradition.

At this point we do not know.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by dragonwriter on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:26PM (#19638823)
> I chose to say "US government" instead of "administration" because it may or may not have been the "administration" that requested the UK to extradite Assange.

No one outside of the administration has the authority to request extradition.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by notabee on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:37PM (#19636384)
Irony seems to be deprecated these days.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by dragonwriter on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:39PM (#19637104)
> The weakness of the US charge against Assange is shocking. The allegation he tried (and failed?) to help crack a password during their world-famous reporting has been public for nearly a decade: it is the count Obama's DOJ refused to charge, saying it endangered journalism.

That's an argument against the desirability of the charge because of knock on effects (or, rather, because of some other actors past perception of such effects), not an argument supporting the claim that the charge is weak. In fact, were it weak, it would pose little danger even if it was the kind of charge that, considerations of strength aside, would pose danger.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by sjy on Thursday April 11, 2019 @05:53PM (#19639642)
Surely if a previous DOJ refused to prosecute the case it is 'weak' in some sense. Perhaps in the sense that while a crime can be proven, it's not an appropriate use of public resources to prosecute. Or perhaps because there is prima facie evidence of a crime but First Amendment arguments could potentially prevent the government from securing a conviction. I haven't yet found a source for the claim that the DOJ previously declined to prosecute, which might shed some light on this.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by dragonwriter on Thursday April 11, 2019 @06:11PM (#19639795)
> Surely if a previous DOJ refused to prosecute the case it is 'weak' in some sense.

No, prosecutorial decisions are not, even in theory, made based solely on the strength of cases; while that is a factor, evaluation of importance (including cost/benefit considerationa), which are ultimately policy decisions which different decision-makers (and even the same decision-maker at a different time, particularly if facts pertinent to the prioritization but not the strength the of the case change) are likely to see differently even with the same view of strength of the case, are also a factor.

Plus, available evidence and relevant case law can change over time; even if the case was weak during the previous Administration the same case might not be weak now.

> Surely if a previous DOJ refused to prosecute the case it is 'weak' in some sense

That's not a matter of the case being weak, that's a matter of policy on which actors with different policy preferences will differ even with perfect information and judgement regarding application of those preferences.

> Or perhaps because there is prima facie evidence of a crime but First Amendment arguments could potentially prevent the government from securing a conviction.

That would be weakness, but no one has made a coherent First Amendment argument that would bar prosecution for conspiracy to break into a government computer system manifest in an offer to help break a password and actual attempts at that. A lot of emotional appeals lacking a specific argument have been made in that direction, but that's not the same thing.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by sjy on Friday April 12, 2019 @12:25AM (#19641971)
If your point was that Snowden shouldn't have described the case as 'weak' if what he meant was merely 'the prosecutors shouldn't have filed it,' because some people would insist that 'weak' is a term of art that specifically refers to the strength of the evidence and not the broader merits of the prosecution decision, then point proven.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by gcb0 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @11:31AM (#19635582)
Interesting, as the current narrative (on thehill.com, a left-center bias news source no less) is that this is all caused by fears from the Obama administration personnel: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/394036-How-Comey-int...

Though it is also the narrative on russia propaganda sites https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201806271065837436-comey-as...

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by dragonwriter on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:42PM (#19637146)
> Interesting, as the current narrative (on thehill.com, a left-center bias news source no less)

TheHill is solid right (or maybe center-right if one views the neoliberal faction of the Democratic Party as center-left instead of center-right.) It's not “left-center” in any case.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by belltaco on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:28PM (#19638835)
>Interesting, as the current narrative (on thehill.com, a left-center bias news source no less) is that this is all caused by fears from the Obama administration personnel

The author isn't left-center biased. It's the opposite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Solomon

>John F. Solomon is an American media executive and columnist. He is currently vice president of digital video and an opinion contributor for The Hill.[1] He is known primarily for his tenure as an executive and editor-in-chief at The Washington Times.[2] He has been accused of biased reporting in favor of conservatives, and of repeatedly manufacturing faux scandals

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by nostrademons on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:23PM (#19636219)
TheHill is right-center (although it's right-leaning in the old Bush/Romney sense, not the newer Trump sense):

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/product/media-bias-chart-4-0-d...

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by vidoc on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:45PM (#19636480)
I think there is a problem in this Matrix as CNN appears very close to the center :) I'm proposing another classification system based on a simple binary checkbox named "Telegraphist of the state department" and I am putting the entirety of mainstream media in it.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by rrix2 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:00PM (#19638019)
Sounds like a pretty useless classification system for the current situation, honestly
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by root_axis on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:55PM (#19636594)
In other words "they're all the same".
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by mc32 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @11:41AM (#19635736)
It’s odd, I just heard Greenwald pinning it on the Trump admin. Not the legacy of of Obama’s DoJ. I guess he’d like to see Trump personally involved to rescind the prev DoJ indictment?

Also international left is still on his side defending him, but thd US left want to see him hung out to dry. Interesting split.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by frank_nitti on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:40PM (#19636418)
The "left" is too broad a stroke to paint with for this situation. The left in the US is quite split on these issues (and an increasing number of other issues).

The so-called "New Democrats" (think Clinton, Biden, Kamala Harris) are surely who you are referring to; they want him crucified. The "progressive" wing of the left (think Ralph Nader) do NOT fit that description. IMHO as a lifelong Southern California resident in Los Angeles, the progressive left has more support among common people, but the Clinton Democrats have more support from the donor class. Hence, the media narrative of the American left is dominated by the corporatist dems.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by joejerryronnie on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:15PM (#19636819)
I don’t believe the progressive left have more support among common people. They have more support among a small minority of very vocal people on social media which makes their influence seem much larger than it is. I think we’ll see a huge backlash against progressives in the next election cycle.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by frank_nitti on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:39PM (#19637102)
I suppose we will see. The Republican establishment thought the same thing about Trump in 2016 -- a small but vocal minority.

By and large, people I spoke to during 2016 were not fans of Hillary Clinton, but had resigned to the fact the she would be the candidate by virtue of her wealthy donors.

Identity politics is still a big thing on the left, so the fact that Bernie Sanders, despite being an "old white man", has so much support from the common people speaks volumes about the shift away from the Clinton-era centrism

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by michaelmrose on Thursday April 11, 2019 @02:46PM (#19637862)
How come that didn't come to pass in the most recent election?
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by kmkemp on Thursday April 11, 2019 @11:59AM (#19635955)
Odd, that's not my impression. Seems like the center (on both sides) and non-libertarian right want to see him in jail.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by nostrademons on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:33PM (#19636338)
Wikileaks is reliably anti-institution, regardless of what that institution is. That implies that anyone seeking political power through control of institutions would be against him, which includes basically all non-libertarians in the U.S, as well as any major corporation, NGO, or nation-state large enough to be a target. His support would come from smaller nations (like Ecuador) or civil-rights organizations that themselves serve as watchdogs for institutionalized power.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by kmkemp on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:00PM (#19636657)
"seeking political power through control of institutions" seems entirely subjective. Why is someone on the far left running for office doing this moreso than a libertarian?
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by mindslight on Thursday April 11, 2019 @02:43PM (#19637822)
On the libertarian-authoritarian axis, "far left" could mean anything and is hence meaningless. If you're using that label to mean left-libertarian, then with respect to institutions they are simply libertarian.

But to the extent they're credibly running for office, they're likely tending towards left-flavored authoritarian because carrying the banner for policies that will benefit some entrenched interests is how elections are won in the US.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by nostrademons on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:17PM (#19636852)
Because they have fundamentally different ideas for how much control those institutions should have over individual people. The far left (assuming communism here, which is the historical far left, though "far left" in America today is somewhat more tame) believes that all citizens should have an equitable distribution of resources, and that it's justified to compel people to work to achieve this equality. The libertarian philosophy is that people should not be compelled to do anything. One of these necessarily involves the exercise of more power by institutions.

You could look at it through the lens of positive vs. negative rights. The far left believes in positive rights (eg. the right to health care, the right to education) which require action by another party. If no party is willing to provide those services, the only way to guarantee that right is to force someone. Libertarians believe in negative rights (eg. freedom from violence, freedom from compulsion, freedom from taxation), which just require inaction. If you simply get rid of the institution, you assure the rights that libertarians care about - at least until some other institution crops up that seeks to infringe upon them. (Many libertarians make exceptions to their general anti-institutional bent to assure that no other institution crops up. For example, most support the government's monopoly on physical force simply to prevent some warlord from generating a local monopoly on physical force and using it to take away the freedoms from compulsion or theft, as long as that's the only purpose that it's used for.)

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by panarky on Thursday April 11, 2019 @02:02PM (#19637381)
> to compel people to work ...

I'm not aware of any "far-left" party or politician in the US or Europe who says it's justified to compel anyone to work.

Taxing income or redistributing wealth does not compel anyone to work.

Indeed, it's right-libertarian policies that tend to transfer wealth from those at the bottom of the pyramid who work to those at the top of the pyramid who do not work.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by qazpot on Friday April 12, 2019 @08:38AM (#19644217)
> Taxing income or redistributing wealth does not compel anyone to work.

It does compel, as you are essentially taking wealth away from people, therefore they will have work more to compensate.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by 8note on Friday April 12, 2019 @11:01AM (#19645349)
if you don't work, your income isn't taxed, so it does not compel you to work. You could not work and not be taxed
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by antidesitter on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:34PM (#19638297)
> it's right-libertarian policies that tend to transfer wealth from those at the bottom of the pyramid who work to those at the top of the pyramid who do not work

Historical experience suggests the opposite.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by licebmi__at__ on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:49PM (#19638446)
There are certain branches of communism that do believe in forced work for bad elements (criminals for example) of society. I don't believe any mainstream US or Europe politician approximates communism, even less that branches.

My take with GP is the question of where would the various left wing anarchists fit in his explanation. Also, I would argue that the classical critique against private property that right libertarians reivindicate is that the state is actually equivalent to the warlord on the example and is inevitable of the concept of private property.

[dead]
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by jammygit on Thursday April 11, 2019 @02:16PM (#19637508)
I don't know the details, but Wiki leaks did publish leaked material about Russia over the years. For example, the surveillance stuff turned up after a quick search

https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by mc32 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:49PM (#19637223)
I think we all understand that that one is one to keep at arms length lest you have unusual chemicals delivered in your drink of choice.
Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by vkou on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:58PM (#19637348)
I think we all understand that when you're being sheltered in a government's embassy, you should probably not piss that government off.

Unfortunately, 'we all' does not seem to include Mr. Assange.

Re:Julian Assange arrested in London by paul7986 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:20PM (#19636879)
Looks like Snowden deleted the tweet is he next or url was bad?