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Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by bdamm on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:30PM (#19626925)
Uh.. It's the reason that the "shadow" is larger than the Schwarzschild radius. He's describing the ratio of the "rim" to the "hole". So while the picture may be fuzzy, there's information in it anyway about what the pictures means relative to how large/spin we think the black hole is. In fact I wish he'd said more about the Doppler effect.
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Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by bdamm on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:17PM (#19628377)
I think what you're hoping for is a more exhaustive survey of what black holes are theorized to look like, with different possibilities. Is that right?

The problem here is your expectation does not match the product. It's like you went to a car dealer and are upset they didn't sell you an airplane.

It isn't surprising to me that Derek focuses on one form, since Veritassium is providing content for the armchair consumer, that he chooses what he believes to be the best model and presents that. This isn't a PhD defense, after all, it's just a timely video so that folks can appreciate the image that the EHT group has released (is going to release, at the time of Veritassium's video.)

Did you have some other models in mind?

Interesting to me is that Veritassium's presented model doesn't explain the corona-like features, nor any attempt at explaining the "blobs" although he does say that blobs would be exiting to see. And there they are! What fun.

Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by wallace_f on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @11:22PM (#19630900)
Yea sort of. I mean I said I liked the episode, I just think this part is bad form (I'm paraphrasing):

>why can you expect it to look like this? well because it's just going to look like this.

Now, I'm not trying to say his prediction was unwise. I just think it's first of all bad form to say something like "the reason is just trust me," in scientific discussions (even if you are correct)... but second I actually do want to know at least some explanation to that question. Granted, I'm not saying the video does not explain anything about the image. I wanted to know: why can we be sure it will look like this, and not other simulated images?

That's all.

You can see on the EHT's own website a gallery of other simulated models of what could be expected from a radio image.

And the second part of my criticism, was that by the end of the video, he was using images inspired by other models, and particularly of one where the accretion disk dominated the image.

I dont care how many downvotes I get, I know the difference between right and wrong and this is a perfectly reasonable criticism.

Anyways, since my posts lost 60 karma in 1 hour somehow (almost uniformly coming from posts in other threads, wtf?) some other opportunistic types see it as a chance for bullying. Even writing stuff like 'you've obviously got your jimmies rustled mate!' or other extremely bad faith assumptions like 'if you cant understand why it's fuzzy, it's far away!' The best is the troll bait comment, 'do you really think one person is downvoting you?' Groupthink, bullying, and authority define right and wrong for some people--they can't even write something that even addresses an actual comment or argument. People are crazy. Eventually they just start addressing the negativity itself, abandoning any substantive argument, and focusing on the negativity itself. The next step is using the negativity as its own justification (you deserve negativity because otherwise you wouldnt be receiving negativity kind of assumptions implicig in the above troll bait comment).

But still all that I dont think explains why comments in unrelated posts (even ones that were being complimented) got the same time-unform mass-downvotes?? I think I haven't experienced anything like this before on this site until recently. I lost 60 karma in the a few hours.

Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by bdamm on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:57PM (#19637335)
Well, for the record, it wasn't me. I did however read through your comments just now, and it seems there is a pattern of not really engaging in dialogue but just blasting your opinion over and over. Looking at your comments on Julian Assange, for example, it seems clear that you do not think there is any difference between what a NYTimes reporter does and what Assange did. I can't speak to everyone else but to me the difference is quite obvious, and probably that has something to do with why you're being downvoted. You're repeatedly stating that they're the same, without describing why you believe this, and then kind of insulting other people for their belief that in fact they are different. So anyway, I've spent way, way too much time responding to you. Good luck to you sir.
Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by wallace_f on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:48PM (#19639034)
Hmm there is some groupthink, lack of reason, or bullying going on here.

Look at this image for yourself. The article is titled: "Here is what scientists think a black hole. Looks like:" https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/04/here-s-what-scientis...

There are not massive differences in the images, but the Vetiasium prediction was (and this is very plain) much more accurate.

This isn't controversial at all.

I also thought the particular statement, "why is it like this, because it is just going to look like this" was bad form.

This is very plainly reasonable.

I think the fact that you and a few other users turned this into an opportunity to go through the effort of writing belittling comments and even put downs and troll bait over something as plain and ordinary as this is indicative of some bad qualities of humanity expressing themselves here.

Of course, your only response will be further negativity as bad people dont possess the ability to admit when they were wrong.

And the statement about Assange is very widely expressed. See here(1). There are articles all over the media, just like that one, echoing the same exact view. They are literally everywhere.

Finally, I noticed over the last 30 minutes all my recent comments went down by -1 each. That really makes it look like I'm engaging with some quite petty and insecure people.

Edit: see, right after I wrote this comment, all my recent comments each, in perfect synchronization, down by -1 again haha.

Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by darkpuma on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @03:06PM (#19627772)
The reason for the fuzziness should be obvious. It's really far away and it's really hard to see. Expecting a jump from "never seen before" to "seen in amazing visual clarity" is unrealistic.
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Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by khamoud on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @06:14PM (#19629290)
He isn't explaining why the blackhole would look like a fuzzy coffee mug stain. He's explaining why the _picture_ of the blackhole will look like a fuzzy coffee mug stain.

To your point, it's like taking a picture of Uranus with film and waiting for it to develop. People familiar with the matter can guess what the _image_ will look like not what Uranus actually looks like.

This is all very clear in the first 25 seconds of the video if you actually listen to what he's saying.

Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by wallace_f on Saturday April 13, 2019 @08:11AM (#19652526)
The first 25 seconds of this video actually does not have sound. The 25 seconds after he begins talking is him talking about Einstein and history.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your intentions and you just meant that as a condescending insult?

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Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by darkpuma on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @03:46PM (#19628122)
> "What? You obviously didn't read what I wrote. Are you ok?"

You're ranting about Saturn and Jupiter for some reason. Why don't you calm down and look at page eight of the paper that Veritasium video was based on: https://ve42.co/luminet "Image of a spherical black hole with thin accretion disk Astronomy and Astrophysics, vol. 75, no. 1-2, May 1979, p. 228-235"

Look at that last image, and squint at it until it gets fuzzy. Lo and behold, a fuzzy coffee mug stain!

Perhaps it was a mistake for him to make the focus of the video on the physics of black holes, rather than the limitations of state of the art radio interferometry... but I don't think so.

Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by CydeWeys on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @06:08PM (#19629253)
Really awesome link, thanks for that! It's always interesting to see theory that is decades out in front of experimental confirmation, and then proves to be dead right.
Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by darkpuma on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @06:39PM (#19629435)
Yeah, I did a double-take when I saw that was published in 1979. I think that's really cool.
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Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by albedoa on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:13PM (#19628349)
You truly believe that all of the downvotes on all of your comments are the work of one account?
Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by darkpuma on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @04:13PM (#19628347)
Mate, you insulted me first, and have just repeated that insult again. I've tried to be charitable with you.
Re:Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video] by wallace_f on Thursday April 11, 2019 @09:47PM (#19641197)
How did you come to the conclusion that I "insulted you first?"