News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by sekai on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @08:54AM (#19614080)
Why a Chinese Bitcoin mining ban is good news:

* It kills the narrative that China controls Bitcoin.

* It severely diminishes the Chinese state's ability to disrupt the Bitcoin network by commandeering hashpower.

* The Chinese miners will move their operations overseas, leading to higher geographical/jurisdictional decentralization.

* It becomes relatively speaking more profitable for Chinese ASIC manufacturers to directly sell their miners compared to mining themselves. This will diminish their oversized power in the ASIC market and decentralize mining in terms of operators.

* BTC itself isn't banned, OTC demand will stay, causing a premium. This means some mining will likely continue in smaller, less obvious operations outside the reach of the state. Everything about that is healthy for the network.

* The biggest source of Bitcoin blocks won't be behind the biggest firewall of the globe anymore.

* The article mentions a phasing out, so the two-week difficulty adjustment period can more than likely gracefully handle this.

* Although a lot of Bitcoin mining is done with hydropower in China, it also has a significant share of cheap coal-powered mining. This likely makes overall Bitcoin mining greener, hurting the Bitcoin climate change FUD.

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by asgionio1234 on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @10:17AM (#19614876)
>This likely makes overall Bitcoin mining greener, hurting the Bitcoin climate change FUD.

I dislike the fact that Bitcoin fans have commandeered the term "FUD". The term originally referred to coming out of Microsoft, but you are using it to refer to well-intentioned people saying things that are true.

It's the same as what happened to the term "fake news."

Bitcoin has some very serious problems. We all know what they are. If you keep pretending they don't exist, you only hurt your own credibility.

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by Tuna-Fish on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:16AM (#19615487)
> The term originally referred to lies coming out of Microsoft

No. It originally referred to the marketing strategy of IBM, which basically consisted of casting doubt on the viability of their competitors. "No-one's ever been fired for buying IBM."

It specifically did not mean outright lies, but the strategy of pointing out that when the market consists of an 800-pound gorilla and hordes of chimps, the chimps might be nimbler to respond to your needs and offer better prices, but you never know when one of them gets bulldozed, and if your infrastructure depends on them, that might be really bad for you. It is not necessary to lie to do this, and good FUD explicitly just consists of carefully selected verifiable factual statements that cast doubt on your competitors.

It is an extremely ballsy marketing strategy: "Yes, our product is worse and costs much more, but you know that we have done this for decades and will still be doing this and supporting you for decades to come." It sold mainframes like hot cakes, even when competing systems sometimes were literally an order of magnitude less expensive.

The association with Microsoft comes from how Gates was really impressed by it, and copied it for Microsoft, once they got big enough to use it. Unlike IBM, Microsoft used the term FUD internally, as revealed in the various documents that were leaked and/or published through discovery.

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by ryanlol on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:03AM (#19615373)
But the whole bitcoin climate change story isn’t true, the people making the claims may very well be well intentioned, they just aren’t correct.
Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by paulgb on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:19AM (#19615521)
Of all the fantastical things bitcoiners believe, the idea that the mining industry isn't directly responsible for a huge amount of CO2 emissions is one of the most egregious.
Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by ryanlol on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @01:47PM (#19617227)
Did you accidentally reply to the wrong person?
Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by paulgb on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @01:55PM (#19617306)
I was responding to this point:

> the whole bitcoin climate change story isn’t true

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by ryanlol on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @02:29PM (#19617614)
There's a world of difference between the wild claims re: bitcoin pushing global warming above 2°C and bitcoin causing lots of CO2 emissions.
Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by jsutton on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:08AM (#19615407)
Bitcoin certainly has its share of problems. There is nothing true, however, about Bitcoin causing climate change.
Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by mprev on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:20AM (#19615530)
Citation needed! Renewables are not free of externalities. Hydro damages environments.

Wasting renewable energy on crypto mining prevents that energy being used for something productive and so drives the need for more renewable capacity or drives further use of fossil fuels.

Bitcoin is an environmental disaster in the making. I see mining as akin to a religious rite that diverts potential away from useful activity and towards a fantasy instead.

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by loceng on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:16AM (#19615489)
It seems like someone along the way cleverly changed the valid and reasonable talking point about the intense and excessive energy use/costs away to a narrative Bitcoin (et al) are causing climate change - which is of course absurd; one of the bigger problems of Bitcoin (et al cryptocurrencies) is that their defence mechanism depends on using a higher amount of energy than someone who'd want to attempt 50%+1 attacks (or lower % take over attempts are still possible, just not guaranteed to allow double spend).
Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by rtpg on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @08:58AM (#19614098)
>* The Chinese miners will move their operations overseas, leading to higher geographical/jurisdictional decentralization.

I feel like you really don't get the... particulars of being a Chinese national, on multiple levels

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by throwaway32366 on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @01:33PM (#19617081)
There are many places in Central Asia, Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, and probably most of Africa where a Chinese national can easily get a business visa to set up shop there.

Heck, given the amount of money invested, a visa for a first world country might be possible too.

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by tradertef on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @03:21PM (#19618077)
Anyone can buy a real estate property for $250,000 and get citizenship in Turkey. This includes Chinese nationals as well.

https://extraproperty.com/turkish-citizenship-buying-propert...

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by coralreef on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:16AM (#19615482)
* It becomes relatively speaking more profitable for Chinese ASIC manufacturers to directly sell their miners compared to mining themselves. This will diminish their oversized power in the ASIC market and decentralize mining in terms of operators.

Don't see this equation actually changing. Like you mentioned, operations will just be moved elsewhere. ASIC manufacturing and mining "tech" will still be hoarded and profit maximized.

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by arcticfox on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @11:16AM (#19615483)
The funny part about Bitcoin news is that for supporters, anything is good. "This is good for Bitcoin", as they say.
Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by Nursie on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @08:57AM (#19614090)
> This likely makes overall Bitcoin mining greener, hurting the Bitcoin climate change FUD.

It's not FUD if it's true, which you're implying with the first half of that there sentence...

Re:China says it wants to eliminate Bitcoin mining by sekai on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @02:19PM (#19617528)
It's debatable, most frequently cited articles are bogus with inflated numbers.