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Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by ainar-g on Friday April 05, 2019 @03:43AM (#19580553)
This might be simply Russian state propaganda working, but wouldn't the diversification of the world's currencies be a good thing? Remember how everyone were afraid of the collapse of the US Dollar back in 2008, and then the similar predictions about the Euro? (And we're hearing a lot about the Great Britain's Pound these days.)
Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by AndyMcConachie on Friday April 05, 2019 @05:43AM (#19581038)
At some point a 13 year old kid in America is going to blame "the Russians" for why he didn't do his chores.

It's amazing how much stuff they get blamed for these days. I mean, what are you actually suggesting? That they've infiltrated Bloomberg? That they're controlling the Saudis?

I'm frankly just tired of all the evidence-free fearmongering about "The Russians", and at this point I just want to say, provide evidence or STFU.

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by ainar-g on Friday April 05, 2019 @06:01AM (#19581124)
Um, no. I am Russian, and I live in Russia. Whether I like it or not, I hear the state propaganda every day. I probably should have mentioned that.

Putin and his, erm, colleagues constantly use “multi-polar world” and “prevention of (implied US-American) hegemony” as a reason for their actions. This includes the desire to make Russian Rouble one of the world's currencies.

If anyone, I am extremely tired of US-Americans blaming their poor policies on “The Russians”, but in this case, the possibility of US Dollar losing some of its value does indeed align with the Kremlin's wants.

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by ilaksh on Friday April 05, 2019 @06:17AM (#19581177)
One theory might be that it could be good for Russia for a certain period of time, up until Russia's currency was so successful that it did indeed threaten the US hegemony. But having the world order tilted back that way could cause tremendous economic problems for the United States as well as putting pressure on the US-centric military apparatus to maintain its hegemony. It could even lead to a war between major powers.

Its almost like the bully being afraid to take his foot off of his victim's neck because he might get up and then he has to actually fight him. I think the reason other countries may not be anxious to push things is because a global war is probably going to be much worse for them than just having a weaker currency and less resources etc.

The other aspect is that it seems like history very commonly ends up in a situation like this with hegemonic powers (otherwise known as Empires). So for now people some people may hate the United States, but sooner or later people will be resenting the Chinese or the artificial superintelligence that starts controlling everything. Personally the current paradigm benefits me so I hope it will continue for awhile, and that we can arrive at the next one without too many people dying. It would be nice to imagine an equitable world, but that doesn't seem feasible given the preponderance of propaganda despite democratized instantaneous mass communications.

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by adventured on Friday April 05, 2019 @08:26AM (#19581810)
> up until Russia's currency was so successful that it did indeed threaten the US hegemony

That's not remotely plausible. Russia doesn't have an economy to support a serious global currency. It has an economy the size of Canada. The US could have never positioned itself to have the global reserve currency, without having the world's largest economy (or otherwise massive economy). That position dates back to ~1890. You can't acquire a superpower economy on the back of currency magic, it can only be done through actual economic production (an area where Russia is severely lacking).

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by engineerworks on Friday April 05, 2019 @09:49AM (#19582435)
The largest driver for economy in US is wars and dollar export.

Russia is also capable of this I guess.

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by GoblinSlayer on Friday April 05, 2019 @08:53AM (#19581997)
They'll just figure out oligarchical collectivism and it will be fine :)
Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by petre on Friday April 05, 2019 @12:06PM (#19583864)
Can you buy anything with Russian Roubles outside Russia and maybe former USSR member states? If you can't, the state propaganda is just that: mostly BS.

I'm currently reading books by Russian authors (Vladimir Sorokin, Andrei Kurkov) and there's constant talk about dollars and also roubles when the characters talk about money. It's like both are used to pay for stuff, dollars for black market goods, hitchhike rides, ransom etc. and roubles for regular stuff like alcohol, a taxi ride, a dinner at the Prague restaurant.

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by ainar-g on Friday April 05, 2019 @12:35PM (#19584252)
Fun fact: you actually can! Or at least used to be able to. About seven years ago I was on vacation in Turkey, somewhere close to Kemer. Besides the Lira, the Dollar, and the Euro, many vendors and cafés accepted Russian Roubles. The exchange rate they used was sometimes rather unfair, but they did accept them. Not sure if this is still the case there.
Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by petre on Friday April 05, 2019 @12:46PM (#19584401)
Probably Egypt as well as it's a popular Russian tourist destination.
Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by gumby on Friday April 05, 2019 @10:47AM (#19583038)
> This includes the desire to make Russian Rouble one of the world's currencies.

This is simply bluster. Russia’s economy is about the size of Australia’s. Even the EU, with GDP comparable to the USA (and 10X Russia’s) hasn’t made any headway in the oil market, much less as a reserve currency.

Actually the value of being a reserve currency is mostly overstated. The US still has that status mainly due to the size and liquidity of its debt, and to a lesser extent, equity market. Even when a comparable rival does eventually emerge, hysteresis will keep the dollar on top for a long while. The same history applied to sterling when it was the world’s reserve currency.

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by NeedMoreTea on Friday April 05, 2019 @06:42AM (#19581284)
It's not exactly new, or Putin.

It's roughly been Russian policy since the early 1800's and the Great Game/Bolshya Igra only then it was trying to undermine GB and Sterling, particularly over India. They seem to have been working the multi-polar angle since Tsarist days too. The internet obviously made things a little easier.

An awful lot that is blamed on Russian intervention sounds far too convenient.

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by caprese on Friday April 05, 2019 @08:15AM (#19581733)
"prevention of (implied US-American) hegemony"

The US openly describes itself as having and maintaining hegemony. With regard to state department representatives and public officials this would primarily be in spoken form. With regard to private media and academics you can find many references to US hegemony and how this relates to influence.

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by zimablue on Friday April 05, 2019 @05:53AM (#19581084)
It's not disputed that they have a large, well funded state propaganda machine and interfered (through internet propaganda) in the last US elections, the dispute was over whether they directly colluded or just assisted at a distance. The idea that they would push a narrative that get picked up and provide behind the scenes support to geopolitics in their favor isn't some wild hypothesis, it's obviously true whatever your political partisanship. US do the same, obviously.
Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by Theodores on Friday April 05, 2019 @04:25AM (#19580746)
> wouldn't the diversification of the world's currencies be a good thing?

It is not that simple. If an economy has a surplus, e.g. China, where does that surplus go? This is why we have a default world currency whether that be silver, gold or petro dollars.

When you work through it a bit more the more you realise a basket of currencies won't work, unless every currency is essentially the same. Capital is like water, it flows.

I would like to see discussion on how we can move on from the currencies we have to a measure of energy. Everything can be measured in energy terms, why not cut out the abstractions?

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by ainar-g on Friday April 05, 2019 @05:12AM (#19580920)
I used to play with an idea of a science fiction novel, where the united Earth's currency is essentially kcal/kJ. The problem is that if you have a flammable and radioactive material, do you count the energy you get from it by burning it, or the energy from throwing it into a nuclear fission reactor, or the energy of throwing it into a black hole in a particular angle[1]?

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCdoCfw-bY

Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by ilaksh on Friday April 05, 2019 @06:49AM (#19581317)
I think for it to be fixed to any real thing (rather than imaginary points that people just keep arbitrarily adding to their databases) then you need a comprehensive way to globally measure that thing. My theory is that decentralized platforms may eventually provide a way for that to be feasible, but with current paradigms it is not.
Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by Mvandenbergh on Friday April 05, 2019 @05:26AM (#19580972)
Since the prices of our main global energy source, oil and gas, are set in dollars, that energy unit is basically the dollar.
Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by maxwell on Friday April 05, 2019 @07:11AM (#19581422)
Cue Bitcoin maximalists explaining that it's effectively a "measure of energy."
Re:Saudi Arabia threatens to ditch dollar oil trades to stop... by thefounder on Friday April 05, 2019 @03:51AM (#19580589)
It would not be good for the US but may be that good for other countries. U.S would loose some of its financial control(i.e sanctions, monitoring individuals etc).

Anyway NOPEC will not happen as long as oil maintains is importance to the world economy. I doubt US is going to invade SA anytime soon.