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Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by techie128 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:25PM (#19575514)
Being a big believer in Open Source and Freedom of Knowledge, I think we, as humans, would progress much more quickly if we broke down barriers to knowledge sharing. It would help everyone progress much more quickly. Keeping knowledge secret, especially in research, which is usually publicly funded is not the right thing.

We can debate all we want but the reality is that China has progressed and its people have benefitted through better living standards. Now those people are investing in other countries creating jobs and improving living standards across poor countries. Weirdly enough one such beneficiary has been India and African countries. Just 5 years ago India could not domestically manufacture cell phones. Now there are over 260 factories with 95% of the phones being produced in the country. This has been a big benefit to India and its people.

Funny how that worked out?

I am not sure what counts as "stealing" in terms of IP. I am a firm believer in protecting IP but at the same time you cannot argue that freely sharing knowledge has its own benefits. IP laws (especially patents) need to be revisited to make sure they serve their purpose and reasonably help inventors benefit from their inventions.

Edit: I must also clarify that this goes both ways. The way Chinese don't end up sharing knowledge is bad. They also do not respect IP law and contracts which needs to drastically change. If they would have respected those and given a fair playing field for foreign companies, I don't think this would be a big issue today.

Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by Brain_Thief on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:39PM (#19575689)
I agree with the general spirit of what you're stating, but the fact of the matter is that the Chinese government has proven conclusively that its vision of the future is not one that incorporates a free flow of information or the preservation of individual rights; the Chinese government as an entity is not a viable partner in the task of building the society of free information you envision - it is an obstacle standing in the way. Unfortunately, the Chinese government has chosen to use its economic prosperity to brutally subjugate ethnic minorities and construct an authoritarian nightmare that fully realizes Orwell's visions of state rule [1].

Every bit of available data indicates that the Chinese government would censor you and everyone you know if it had the ability to do so; the ruling party have demonstrated their willingness to violently destroy any person, group, or ideology that they disapprove of. Any other assessment of the situation is, at best, naive to the point of being dangerous. The twentieth century (not to mention the past ten years) has taught us that democracy is a fragile thing; it is extremely important that western citizens be vigilant and open-eyed when assessing who to deal with in educational, political, and business theaters.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/04/world/asia/xi...

Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by chrischen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:50PM (#19575799)
Individual rights is a Western philosophy. Eastern philosophies have long favored collectivism, including the “free” Japan.
Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by Brain_Thief on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:19PM (#19576090)
I've read your comment several times and am having trouble understanding your underlying point - could you elaborate?
Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by automatic_4_ppl on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:10PM (#19576577)
It's a common apologia tactic for authoritarian regimes, in which their authoritarianism is justified by saying that, actually, that particular ethnicity prefers to be ruled by an iron-fisted dictatorship.

Basically, the structure and ideology of the regime is assumed to be the authentic expression of something inherent in that particular culture, rather than the product of material circumstances or deliberate choices by a political elite.

Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by nickpsecurity on Thursday April 04, 2019 @07:20PM (#19578107)
Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit. I agree with them that sharing ideas and tech seems to be a better default. If we had protections, they should be much more selective and careful.

In Shenzhen especially, you have to out-compete the others on implementation of ideas instead of rest on your laurels (err, copyrights and patents). Wired has a great documentary of its history and culture here with examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY

One I like that's about improvement more than stealing is the iPhone copy. That company got the copy out about a year before the iPhone hit China. Apple refused to let customers swap their batteries and SIM cards easily. Their I.P. protections let them pull bullshit like that. The Chinese knockoff did let you swap those. The chargers come to mind, too. If your interface is proprietary, a company will likely spring up offering a modified product or cheaper adapter that lets people keep their existing one.

Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by chibg10 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @11:11PM (#19579337)
I'm not so sure this is actually a cultural thing and not a convenience given the times thing.

The Chinese education system seems to emphasize that many "Chinese" ideas were stolen by "foreigners"in previous generations. This hardly seems to jibe with the claims of merely cultural understandings of ownership.

Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by aiphex on Thursday April 04, 2019 @11:59PM (#19579568)
China's technological contributions to the 20th century were next to nill. It's easy to share when it means playing with everyone else's toys.
Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by toufiqbarhamov on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:01PM (#19578358)
Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit.

Except the communist party which controls all of China, and takes a highly authoritarian stance on the free spread of information they dislike and fear of course. They have a literal and digital Great Wall, I’m not sure how your square this fact with what you’re claiming is a cultural bias to collective information policies.

Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by nickpsecurity on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:29PM (#19578495)
"Except the communist party which controls all of China, and takes a highly authoritarian stance on the free spread of information they dislike and fear of course. "

They don't dislike foreign I.P. that their businesses can use to get rich. They also don't seem to dislike what Shenzhen is doing since they're not throwing the copycats in jail. It looks like the communist party is fine with this concept.

Controlling information they fear to stay in power is a different topic entirely. They're all about that. That's why they have the Wall, censhorship, etc. You also seem to be conflating what Chinese individuals and businesses will do if they aren't restricted vs what their government imposes on them. The culture I'm describing applies to the former. I have no idea how the latter thinks past preserving and expanding their power.

Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by Daniel3 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:49PM (#19576399)
Really? Blatantly ignoring patent laws, IP, international waters, the sovereignty of other countries, as well as their well documented strong arm capitalism-for-the-sake-of imperialism, like their infrastructure projects in Sri Lanka and other places for the purpose of bankruptcy is just seeking the common good? Its very funny to me how you praise them for championing "open source" philosophy with other people's IP etc... adn then at the end of your statement wonder allowed about them not sharing any of their own. Uh, thats not "open source" thats imperialism by any and all means. Disclaimer: Im not trying to paint this onto China as an entirety or as a culture. There are government forces at work, as well as private entities supporting and abetting this behavior for the purpose of Chinese Imperialism. There are good people and good institutions in China, unfortunately they are not the winds of progress there currently
Re:MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE by nickpsecurity on Thursday April 04, 2019 @07:23PM (#19578123)
"Its very funny to me how you praise them for championing "open source" philosophy with other people's IP etc... adn then at the end of your statement wonder allowed about them not sharing any of their own. Uh, thats not "open source" thats imperialism by any and all means. "

Yeah, it's not the same as open source. They certainly don't give anything out like in open-source. Your comment is misleading, though. The Chinese companies, which include lots of competitors internal to China, just copy everything in their process of iterating products out. So, Chinese companies and/or government takes the I.P., create their own products, and other Chinese copy them. All this stuff keeps spreading cheaper and getting forked kind of like open source. Hits overcharging, proprietary suppliers hard like open source. Just isn't open source with the full benefits.