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Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by roberto on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:02PM (#19575262)
What if time's arrow can be reverted, and is being reverted all the time, but we don't notice it because, just like and omelet would become an egg, our brain state would revert to a previous one?

As far as we know time could be running in reverse, but the process in our brains would make us feel like it flowing forward. The book "Permutation City" explores this idea, albeit in simulated brains.

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by b_tterc_p on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:59PM (#19575878)
For all you know you don’t even experience time going forwards. At any given instance, how do you know that you “experienced” the past second. What if your conscious experience is just an instance at that point of existence? You can’t point to recollection of the past second because that recollection happens through time as well. What if that’s just an illusion of the brain state at that time?

Did Descartes really think?

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by FakeComments on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:32PM (#19576237)
> Did Descartes really think?

For the purposes of his proof, yes:

Dubito ergo cogito ergo sum.

The witness of a doubt is the witness of a thought is the witness of a thing, hence a thing must exist.

Descartes at that point in his argument doesn’t make any assertion to the nature of reality, merely that each of us can be sure that something exists, even if our interpretation is completely wrong: the very act of doubting existence is witness to existence.

People project their own model of self into those terms, but it’s merely trying to make a broadening categorical argument and not a particular interpretation of what the objects normally represented by those terms are or how they behave (eg, times exists).

A static Descartes with the experience of currently doubting is sufficient witness for the proof, which Descartes would have himself experienced directly — the cogito is a witness to that experience of Descartes.

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by halgir on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:23PM (#19576129)
Also known as a Boltzmann Brain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by rexpop on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:15PM (#19576636)
I am very grateful to be introduced to this concept. During--and occasionally since--a particularly traumatic psilocybin trip some years ago, I had the distinct understanding that my consciousness had only just been put together (or, rather, re-arranged from another, very alien form), memories and all. It is comforting to have such bizarre experiences reflected in others' thought experiments.

Classically, we understand our neurological arrangement to be a function of each last instant's without discomfort. It's another thing entirely to consider how we might have been arranged from wildly different previous states.

Although there's no compelling evidence to support it, neither is there a way to disprove it, I'm afraid.

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by AgentME on Friday April 05, 2019 @10:08PM (#19588717)
A really strange thing about Boltzmann brains is that if you suppose their existence, then the question "Am I a Boltzmann brain?" becomes complicated. It makes sense to ask "Is there a human thinking the thoughts I am thinking?" and "Is there a Boltzmann brain thinking the thoughts I am thinking?", but if you suppose the answer to both is yes, then when you ask the question "Which one am I?", there's no pure logic you can follow within your mind to answer that question, because both the human and the Boltzmann brain are in the same mental state and any logic either of them follow will be followed by the other, and any logic that comes up with a definite answer must be flawed because it comes to a wrong answer for at least one of them.

Of course, it's not particularly useful to consider the Boltzmann brain version of yourself because a Boltzmann brain's decisions don't have any consequences. Time is better spent considering decisions by the consequences of the human taking them. Maybe this implies that you should choose to define "yourself" to refer to both your mental state combined with the ability to make decisions of consequence, and then you can safely disregard the strange kinship you may have with a Boltzmann brain. Though now this line of thought invites interesting questions about how to define what makes a decision consequential, and what exactly makes human decisions consequential...

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by acchow on Thursday April 04, 2019 @07:53PM (#19578319)
I see consciousness as the threading together of alternate futures where the Boltzmann Brain doesn't collapse out of existence.
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by pierrebai on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:39PM (#19576306)
Any explanation that denies everyday's experience might be fun but mostly useless. That we cannot give a clear explanation of our perception of time does not deny it. Electricy existed before humans could explain it.
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by b_tterc_p on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:27PM (#19577297)
Lack of denial doesn’t prove existence
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by aabeshou on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:46PM (#19577420)
Neither does lack of proof of existence prove implausibility of existence
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by 4BxHkLgUVBG on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:43PM (#19576913)
There is no future. Only present
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by HNLurker2 on Friday April 05, 2019 @12:15AM (#19579648)
There is no present just a discrete plank scale time that you can be ignorant and call it arrow of time, or be present and try not to fall in the illusion of continous flow.
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by eternalban on Sunday April 07, 2019 @12:35PM (#19597916)
I don't think the discreet model by itself explains the arrow but it is imo a part of the puzzle.

As you are very likely familiar with the 2-slit experiment, I am of the view that 'information' [?] flows from both directions of what we perceive as 'arrow of time'. The act of choice constrains the possible pathways and that reduction is what we call 'state collapse'. So without measurement at the slits, all possible pathways are active and naturally we perceive them as an 'interference pattern'. As soon as we close the door on 'choice' flow from 'future' has no other possible path way other than the single open slit. This we note as the 'particle' modality of the experimental setup.

That answers the so-called 'paradox' of the experiment but still doesn't address why we perceive an arrow of time going forward. Now returning to the 'discreet' aspect, I posit the 'computation' of the 'virtual smooth construct of perceived reality' is what we are registering as a forward movement in an inherently timeless universe. It all seems to be inexplicably bound up with the phenomena of consciousness.

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by HNLurker2 on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @06:50AM (#19613353)
(Not expert) Does this have to do with Feynman's one electron universe (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe) that goes back in time?
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by eternalban on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @09:09PM (#19620756)
Precisely what set those thoughts in motion for me a few decades ago.
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by KingFelix on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:09PM (#19575344)
Also check out some of the work that Daniel Sheehan is doing (from USD, not the lawyer) they just raised the needed funds to start a test on Quantum Retrocausation. Daniel also has a conference on Retrocausation, it's pretty great.

https://experiment.com/projects/are-we-catching-photons-trav...

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by MisterOctober on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:10PM (#19575995)
Also, check out physicist Julian Barbour's notion that the universe is entirely static, and that our mind 'constructs' the illusion of time's arrow by orderings its perception of a collection of configuration spaces he calls 'nows'
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by kgwgk on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:44PM (#19576343)
FWIW, he’s the author of the article.
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by MisterOctober on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:49PM (#19577448)
Zoinks! that'll teach me not to comment before reading the article. Thanks for the heads up!

It's interesting how, in the OP, Barbour doesn't use much of the language he leaned on for "The End of Time' [1999, the source of the ideas I was referring to]. Maybe couching his ideas in more normal language is helping him reach a wider audience, which is great.

Side note : I once emailed Barbour with some question about his view of Machian dynamics, and he emailed me back a thoughtful and kind reply - helluva nice guy

p.s. his "other" book, 'The Discovery of Dynamics' aka 'Absolute or Relative Motion?,' is also a great read

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by p1esk on Friday April 05, 2019 @01:41AM (#19580005)
FYI, this article is based on his paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.5167
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by feanaro on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:34PM (#19577341)
Interesting, but isn't perception still a dynamic process requiring time? Or, said differently, how can a completely static universe support an apparently "evolving" perception?
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by bodi on Thursday April 04, 2019 @07:43PM (#19578254)
Think of it like a map/reduce over rows in a database.
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by empath75 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:08PM (#19576566)
> is being reverted all the time

Think for a second about what you're saying here, and if it makes sense. What does 'all the time' mean in this context?

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by xelxebar on Friday April 05, 2019 @03:30AM (#19580495)
It's not entirely incoherent, since time is relative to the geometry of spacetime and your trajectory through it. OP's original statement could be referring to the time coordianet in two separate frames of reference, so we might say that time (for us) is being reverted all the time (from someone else's perspective).

It's even theoretically possible to have closed-timelike curves in general relativity, which means that time would literally loop for some set of set of observers. Any matter riding on these curves does have to have periodic dynamics, so in a sense it would be evolving and then reverting endlessly.

To be fair though, the existence of such solutions to Einstein's equation is seen as problematic, since they raise questions of time-travel paradoxes and such. Also, I have only a passing familiarity with the details of the physics in such spacetimes, so take what I say with a hefty grain of salt.

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by laszlokorte on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:55PM (#19578641)
and what does "for a second" mean?
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by roberto on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:38PM (#19577374)
Good point, I haven't thought of that.
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by xelxebar on Friday April 05, 2019 @03:31AM (#19580506)
I replied to GP, outlining a potential resolution. Thought you might like thinking about that kind of thing, so letting you know directly.
Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by lisper on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:20PM (#19575464)
That is in fact exactly what quantum mechanics predicts.

http://blog.rongarret.info/2014/10/parallel-universes-and-ar...

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by selimthegrim on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:38PM (#19578876)
1) Galilean relativity actually plays a role in deriving the Schrodinger equation (at least convincing yourself it’s correct. See the books by Commins and Yaglom).

2) QM without statistical mechanics/thermo seems an odd basis to make prognostications about time or reversibility. Time isn’t an operator (see the classic Mandelstam-Tamm paper)

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by lisper on Friday April 05, 2019 @12:52PM (#19584478)
> Time isn’t an operator

Yes, that's because time isn't actually a physical phenomenon. It's a kind of illusion, an approximation to the truth, in the same way that Newtonian mechanics is an approximation of GR in the weak-field limit. The wave function is a static, four-dimensional "thing" (it's not actually a thing, but I don't know of a more general noun). Our perception of a classical universe that evolves in "time" is not a reflection of a real underlying physical process, it's an emergent property of a sequence of subsets of the wave function in which entanglements have accumulated. Quantum information theory predicts the emergence of subsystems that are all in classical correlation with each other, i.e. a "classical universe". But none of this is actually real in a metaphysical sense.

Re:The Mystery of Time’s Arrow by veryworried on Thursday April 04, 2019 @06:43PM (#19577837)
Ah Eternal Return, it brings comfort to know that we may simply be living our exact same life over and over again for all eternity. Really motivates me to live to the fullest, to have the most enjoyable eternity.