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Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by lefstathiou on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:56AM (#19569897)
So 52 years worth of reserves assuming maximum capacity of 12mm barrels harvested a day. Now I am no mathematician but given a 1-2mm per day average and what will likely become a declining demand for oil over next 20-30 years, they have half a millennia worth of oil lying around. This well seems like a non issue to me.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by adventured on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:19AM (#19569993)
It's a big problem for them.

In the case of Saudi Arabia, it's the combination of oil production ceiling vs population, that is almost guaranteed to be the Kingdom's undoing. Their population growth is slowly unsettling their stability by debasing the per capita well-being. This has resulted recently in record unemployment and a struggling economy.[1] The record youth unemployment in particular is very concerning in a region where that can lead to severe destabilization and the formation of revolutionary groups (desperate youth seeking change). Their oil reserves in 1990 were similar to today, except now they have twice as many people and oil's outlook is getting more dim by the year. In 1990 they had a mere 16m people, in ~2035 they'll have 48m people dividing even fewer oil resources than in 1990.

Unlike, say, Russia, which has a fixed population (net unchanged in 30 years), Saudi Arabia has rapid population growth and is almost entirely dependent economically on subdividing those oil resources per capita (in one form or another). Their efforts to diversify the economy have failed repeatedly and wealthy developed nations are less interested in doing business with them than at any other time in decades. They've lost 1.5 million expat jobs in just a few years, and haven't been able to replace them with new domestic jobs.[2]

Saudi has to figure out how to produce eight million (or more) jobs in just roughly 15 years, when so far they've demonstrated they can hardly produce any net new jobs at all (for Saudis). And these can't be just any jobs, they need to match the present relatively high expectations for a standard of living that Saudis have. If they fail at that vast job creation requirement, the Kingdom is going to fall into violent revolution in some manner.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/saudi-unemployment/saudi-une...

[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-03/as-expats...

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by martinpw on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:36AM (#19570066)
Another factor is that the rapid population growth combined with subsidised oil prices means their own population uses a large and increasing amount of its own production - around 1/4 of total production is already consumed domestically, some even burned to generate electricity. That ratio is likely to keep rising with population growth and resistance to any attempts to reduce subsidies, so even if production remains flat, exports will decline.

This chart is a few years old already but shows over 3m barrels/day being consumed internally by 2014, must be significantly higher by now:

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Saudi-Arabia/oil_consumptio...

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by mikekchar on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:23AM (#19570010)
I think the point is that they will likely destabilise long before they run out of oil. The price/demand/Saudi's share of OPEC's allowance will mean that the dire economic situation that you describe will play out no matter how much oil they have left. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but that's what I understood from the OP's post.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by perfunctory on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:16AM (#19570215)
> but given a 1-2mm per day average

Where did you get this number from? They are not pumping at their maximum capacity but I understand it's pretty close on average

"Saudi Arabia briefly pumped a record of more than 11 million barrels a day in late 2018."

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by max_wen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:11AM (#19569958)
"what will likely become a declining demand for oil over next 20-30 years"

based on what?

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by max_wen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:29AM (#19570037)
20+% increase by 2015-2030 https://www.statista.com/statistics/547100/projected-base-oi...

A more realistic assessment from Shell Oil is that oil demand continues to grow over the next 20 years, a view shared by rival BP and energy consultants like Wood Mackenzie. https://www.forbes.com/sites/daneberhart/2018/09/18/forecast...

Long-term oil demand is expected to increase by 15.8 mb/d, rising from 95.4 mb/d in 2016 to 111.1 mb/d in 2040 https://www.opec.org/opec_web/flipbook/WOO2017/WOO2017/asset... (page 101)

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by yread on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:07AM (#19570388)
That's depressing
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by adrianN on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:32PM (#19575623)
It wouldn't be good for Shell's or BP's stock value if they predicted falling demand for their product...
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by hanniabu on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:22AM (#19570005)
Just going off of memory, I believe I read that gasoline consumption has plateaued, meaning we're weaning off of it and it's being supplemented by alternative sources. I think it's a fair assumption that this indicates a shift that will lead to declining numbers in the next 20-30 years, if not sooner.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by max_wen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:38AM (#19570070)
Plateaued where? In California and Europe maybe but not in the rest of the world.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by Arnt on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:03AM (#19570167)
It's more complicated than that. Some things keep growing (air traffic for instance), some not (power plants planning/construction for instance) and some seem in decline (ICE cars).

If you can read .de-ese: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/1.4371221

You can add the apples and oranges up and get different results, depending on your judgment. And you get to choose what to assume: You may assume that what happens in California in 2019 definitely won't happen in the rest of the US in the coming years, or that it will. Et cetera.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by max_wen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:14AM (#19570207)
thanks it translated pretty well.

So I think this story sounds incomplete. I do not think it is mutually exclusive to say that the Bosch burner factory is shutting down and that 95% of all new cars sold worldwide are combustion engine powered. German labor is extremely expensive and German taxes are incredibly high. Welcome to the global economy.

I find it much more likely that much like everything else, the Chinese car market wants cars manufactured in China and that those China factories source from Chinese vendors. It's no different than the electronics industry.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by Arnt on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:14AM (#19570430)
If you follow the links, you see that the reduced demand forcecasts are worldwide and most of the layoffs involved are in low-cost countries. Most the companies mentioned are global leaders in their small field (like one of the companies mentioned, which produces not cars, not engines, not cylinders, but parts for cylinders, and 80% of its workforce are in low-wage countries, and its customers are all over the world).

A region in Germany is likely to be badly affected and that gets most of the wording. Don't let that fool you. When the investor guidance says "challenging outlook", it doesn't mean "we'll lay off a few people at HQ but the factories will be fine".

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by max_wen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:39AM (#19570514)
i agree. the German factories will not be fine.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by AnthonyMouse on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:25AM (#19570018)
> based on what?

Rising popularity of electric cars, increasing vehicle efficiency in general, potential legislation targeting climate change, etc.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by max_wen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:35AM (#19570064)
- Electric cars are still less than 5% of new car market. Hardly impactful

- The increase in efficiency is more than offset by the growth in overall car market

- Potential legislation in China? India? Emerging markets? Sorry but nothing suggests that is happening

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by AnthonyMouse on Thursday April 04, 2019 @11:43AM (#19573640)
> Electric cars are still less than 5% of new car market. Hardly impactful

That is up from <1% five years ago, in a market where demand spurs demand by increasing availability of charging points etc. Meanwhile the EV market is currently production capacity constrained and multiple companies are expanding production capacity.

I doubt we're going to be at 100% electric cars in ten years but I would not be surprised if it was somewhere in the mid double digits by then. And by that point it becomes a lot easier to target ICE cars with legislation because there is a proven viable alternative.

> The increase in efficiency is more than offset by the growth in overall car market

Any given factor is more than offset by the growth in the overall car market. But you add them all together.

> Potential legislation in China? India? Emerging markets? Sorry but nothing suggests that is happening

China has a slate of domestic electric car companies and it's exactly their style to pass legislation that favors domestic companies over foreign competitors. Climate change provides them a really good justification to do that here.

And carbon taxes generate revenue, which makes it easy to make them revenue neutral. Use the money to lower other taxes or fund a UBI. This knocks out the "harms the poor/developing countries" argument because the cost becomes only the cost difference between fossil fuels and alternatives, which is rapidly approaching zero.

Moreover, most of the current oil demand comes from the US and Europe. If either of them, much less both, passed relevant legislation then not only would their own demand fall off, the increased economies of scale and network effects that would spur in alternatives would also make them more cost effective in countries without any such legislation.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by Arnt on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:15AM (#19570210)
Bosch and about six other manufacturers of car parts disagree with you and expect sharply reduced demand for ICE-specific car parts.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by max_wen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:36AM (#19570273)
I agree that at least 6 manufacturers of ICE-car parts in the EU and USA will be seeing reduced demand in the future
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by Arnt on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:03AM (#19570371)
Maybe I should have put that differently. Maybe I should have added "AFAIK zero ICE parts manufacturers have issued forecasts of increased demand".
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by wcarron on Thursday April 04, 2019 @10:21PM (#19579080)
60% of new cars sold in Norway recently were EVs. That's a start, and a good one at that. I'd be highly doubtful that EVs won't continue to gain steam over the next decade, as VW, Porsche, Audi, Volvo, Ford, GM, and Toyota continue to expand EV production lines and models.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by carlos22 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:38AM (#19570071)
> Rising popularity of electric cars Currently very slow - needs to accelerate a lot to be significant in 2030 (thats only 11 years).

> increasing vehicle efficiency in general There is not much to gain, the vehicles are gaining weight in the last 2 decades (SUVs etc.). Thats eating up the small improvements in efficiency. A real big improvement is not in sight.

> potential legislation targeting climate change We can hope for that, but with Trump in charge and Merkel in Auto-Germany ruling the EU it won't really happen. Hopefully this will change.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by de_watcher on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:06AM (#19570178)
> Rising popularity of electric cars Currently very slow

Starting from the 2019 the range and price came to the point where they are suddenly viable in EU.

Then there will be a used electric car wave because of the low-power charging infrastructure catching up and making older short range models actually useful.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by carlos22 on Sunday April 07, 2019 @02:37AM (#19595170)
Currently the prices of the used electric cars are crazy. You get a brand new gasoline car for the same price as an 6 year old VW e-up!. The Renault Zoe is still 30k EUR (including battery) for a small car with low to mid range (150 - 300km; depends on the model and year).
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by woodandsteel on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:16PM (#19578438)
> Rising popularity of electric cars Currently very slow - needs to accelerate a lot to be significant in 2030 (thats only 11 years).

S-curve, man, S-curve. The experts say that around 2023-25 sales prices of EV's will be down to equal ICE's, and EV sales will take off like a rocket.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by carlos22 on Sunday April 07, 2019 @02:33AM (#19595159)
Well, we will see. As a German I can not believe it will happen, all our big car companies talking about it for like 8 years now. We had the goal of 1 mio. EV cars by 2020 in 2017 we have 54.99 (pure EVs) and about 160k hybrid. Thats 0.1 % EVs. Our gov pays you 4000 € bonus if you buy a EV, they still have budget for this campaign because of the low EV sales. Even the diesel-gate did not had a real effect, now everybody is buying gasoline cars.

VW announced the I.D. and a new e-up! But it is all only announcements, currently the cheapest car, the e-up! isn't even order-able. BMW announced the i2 (cheaper version of the i3) but it will take till 2021 to get one.

I hope you are right, but at least here it does not look like it.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by chrischen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:20AM (#19569996)
52 years is a blip in human civilization. I'd be curious to see how in the grand scheme the depletion of oil looks. Will our tech/development boom grind to a halt all of a sudden? Do we switch to nuclear?
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by vichu on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:38AM (#19570072)
I wouldn't be too concerned as renewables and nuclear technology should be at the point where it would be able to pick up the slack - we know the end is coming and we can prepare for it.

An interesting thought experiment is whether or not humans (or some future species) would be able to reproduce the technological advancements that oil enabled given some sort of apocalypse scenario that resets us to year zero.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by netwanderer3 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:45AM (#19571545)
I remember watching a video in which it said how most current engineering jobs these days are really just destructive jobs.

They basically take an existing natural resource from the environment and turn it into another form of resource that human could make use of. But this in turn destroys that very same environment we human also live in, effectively wiping out ourselves in the process.

Those engineering jobs basically only convert one form of resource/energy into another, but they actually didn't create anything new out of thin air themselves.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by tinco on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:24AM (#19571980)
I think it is fair to say most engineers do not violate laws of nature.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by govg on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:53AM (#19570130)
Oil isn't somehow magical in any manner - everything that oil does today can be boiled down to supplying kinetic energy. We don't use its chemical properties in any special way, it just happens to be among the most efficient in terms of calories per kg. With advances in battery tech, and large-scale shift to renewables, I think running out of oil is largely a non-issue in the long run (of course we'll have pains in shifting, but there will not be any long term drawbacks)
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by nostrademons on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:40AM (#19570280)
The biggest issue is actually food - most of the seeds grown today are engineered to depend upon fossil-fuel based chemical fertilizers, and cannot actually survive on their own without both the chemical fertilizers and a large helping of herbicides/pesticides/fungicides (many of which are also produced by the chemical industry). Break that dependency and you have to undo the Green Revolution that multiplied agricultural output by 10x. Do that and instead of the world's current food production being able to support a population of 9B if they were all willing to eat a vegetarian diet, you'd be looking at 900M, i.e. about 85% of people on earth would have to die.

I suspect that if you took away all the demand for oil from powering cars, though, there'd be plenty left at reasonable prices for growing food and maybe even flying planes. So you do need some fossil fuel production, but get rid of its use in automobiles, heating, and electricity and the remaining reserves can be allocated much more efficiently.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by credit_guy on Thursday April 04, 2019 @06:19AM (#19570648)
Oil is not used in the production of fertilizers.

Here's a quote I found in [1]

"The macronutrients required by plants are N (Nitrogen), K (Potassium) and P (Phosphorus). Oil is hydrocarbon, made from H (Hydrogen) and C (Carbon). There are no plant nutrients in oil.

Nitrogen fertilizer (N) is made from ammonia, which in turn is manufactured from natural gas, not oil"

[1] http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/2005/08/28-isnt-fertiliz...

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by mschuster91 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:52AM (#19570333)
> We don't use its chemical properties in any special way,

We do, 99% of plastics is made using fossil fuels. Big players are trying to shift to sustainable alternatives though, for example LEGO: https://www.lego.com/en-us/aboutus/news-room/2018/march/pfp

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by adrianN on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:14AM (#19570206)
It is pretty useful as a base for all kinds of chemicals. All plastics for example are made from oil.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by reitanqild on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:20AM (#19570226)
> We don't use its chemical properties in any special way, it just happens to be among the most efficient in terms of calories per kg.

As far as I am aware a lot of oil is used as raw material in chemical industry, not only as energy source.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by fredgrott on Thursday April 04, 2019 @07:57AM (#19571077)
are sure? how many plastics including textiles would have to be replaced if we did not have the chemical properties of oil to create them? Any idea? I bet you are wearing at least one item of clothing with a textiel created with oil chemicals..such as nylon or others
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by tinus_hn on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:12PM (#19578418)
There are processes that create crude oil given energy and some basic resources.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by hackerbabz on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:54AM (#19570132)
How would you argue that the answer is not, "no"?
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by foota on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:59AM (#19570152)
I mean, we only really started to use oil industrially in like the mid 1800s, right? We'd already developed a lot of technology, doesn't seem ridiculous to think we could have gotten from there to here without oil. And maybe we'd have developed biofuels sooner?
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by chvid on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:40AM (#19570078)
To me as a casual observer it has always been obvious that the price of energy over the long term is going to zero. Ultimately all provided by renewalable sources.

Sure the price of certain forms of energy (wood fire, oil ...) may go up over time but while that happens cheaper sources appear and ultimately take over.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by ppf on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:18AM (#19570220)
"Renewable" doesn't mean "free energy". Constructing renewable energy sources (wind, solar, etc) takes more energy than constructing an equivalent non-renewable energy source - this is the EROEI (energy returned on energy invested). There's also space limits - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0W1ZZYIV8o

What's apparent to me is that we live in a unique era where energy is abundant and cheap, which may never be repeated (unless fusion power is developed).

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by nostrademons on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:03AM (#19570369)
His conclusions seemed suspect to me - I remember doing out the calculations myself and came out with the conclusion that a 50x50 mile solar array in the Arizona desert could power the U.S. A 150x200 mile array in the Sahara could power the world. These are large arrays - they would be visible from space - but they are far from "country-sized", and quite doable if production costs come down (which they are - solar and wind are now cheaper than coal).

(You can check my math yourself: total world energy consumption = 109,136 TWh [1] / 8760 hours/year = 12.45 TW / 15 W/foot solar panel output [2] = 830B square feet / 27878400 ft^2/mi^2 = 29772 mi^2 = 150x200 mi array.)

Working through his math, I think the problem is that the UK is unique in a.) having a high population density b.) with a large per capita energy consumption and c.) a lot of cloud cover. On his chart, only Japan, South Korea, the Netherlands, and Bahrain had it worse. The U.S. and China both had an order-of-magnitude better energy consumption per unit area; most of the world had two orders of magnitude. That's an argument for why Britain is fucked in the new globally-warmed, fossil-fuel-limited world, but not why the world is fucked. A lot of developing areas could see their energy consumption rise to rival the U.S. and still not bat an eye with solar power.

The EROEI of solar panels is between 8.7 - 34.2; wind is 20-50. [3] As long as this number is > 1 (which it is for nearly every energy source except biofuels) you can keep building production capacity indefinitely; you just invest the energy from previous capacity into building new capacity. Higher numbers of course let you do more other stuff while this is going on and build out faster, but it's just like capitalism. As long as you turn a profit on each panel, you'll have more as time goes on.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption

[2] https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/solar-basics/how-much-electr...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_inve...

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by ppf on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:41AM (#19570519)
Your figure of 15W/sq foot assumes no gaps between panels - hard to imagine on a 50mile+ array. The bigger problem is that it assumes overhead, direct sunlight. You'd have to cut that at least in half ;)

Yes, the UK does have issues by these metrics, and the US is in the unique position of a huge per capita energy consumption and huge land reserves. Therefore, it is somewhat feasible in the US to just keep building wind and solar farms. However, I wonder how the economics of the non-renewable minerals needed would affect the price. It also doesn't (as far as I know) take into account all the extra infrastructure required to support the fluctuating nature of renewable energy sources.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by ppf on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:42AM (#19570526)
Also, with a higher cost to manufacture these energy sources, it's inevitable that the cost to consumers will rise.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by nostrademons on Thursday April 04, 2019 @06:03AM (#19570601)
The gaps easily get canceled out by using newer solar panels; I took the low end of commercial solar power outputs I found on the web, many of the more recent ones do 20W/sq foot or more. 25% gaps seems generous.

I thought about the rare-earth issue, but there's a simple solution that bypasses both it and the energy-storage issue: use solar-thermal plants instead of photovoltaics. These require only mirrors and steam turbines, both made out of abundant materials. Efficiency is actually higher than photovoltaics (30% or so), and energy can be stored as heat for up to 5 hours before it's used. (Ironically, they have the same issues relative to photovoltaics that photovoltaics have over fossil fuels; in theory they're simpler and more environmentally friendly, but implementing the theory correctly requires solving a number of engineering problems that together make them cost more and generate more hiccups than photovoltaics have.)

The higher cost isn't actually true anymore, for photovoltaics and wind at least. Solar hit grid parity with fossil fuels in late 2015, and is now actually cheaper than coal power plants. This (rather than subsidies) is why the coal industry is in deep shit: it just doesn't make economic sense anymore, and the electric industry is rapidly switching over to renewables & natural gas.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by mendelsd on Thursday April 04, 2019 @07:26AM (#19570927)
The EROI literature suggests EROI needs to be much higher than 1 to sustain economic growth. Also, some estimates of solar panel (PV) EROI are as low as 3. This short article addresses both of these points: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S254243511...
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by locuscoeruleus on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:33AM (#19570266)
> To me as a casual observer it has always been obvious that the price of energy over the long term is going to zero.

This is not at all obvious to this casual observer. Earth radiates heat away at a constant rate. We can never produce more energy than the earth radiates away, for obvious reason. With current trajectories we will release more energy than earth radiates away in less than 200 years. I'm not sure how the price of a limited resource can go to zero, but I'm also not very well versed in economics.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by nostrademons on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:16AM (#19570435)
Earth radiates heat away at a constant rate only because Earth's temperature is approximately constant. Actual black-body radiation is governed by the Stefan-Boltzmann law [1], and is proportional to temperature^4. A small increase in temperature significantly increases the amount of energy radiated, which then serves to moderate the temperature.

In practice, the total energy consumption of the Earth is bounded by the amount of solar energy that falls on the earth, which is about 100,000 times greater than current total world energy consumption. For what civilizations might look like that exceed that, check out the Kardashev scale [2], which classifies civilizations by the size of the astronomical object whose energy they harness. Type 1 civilizations harness a planet, Type 2 harness a star, Type 3 harness a galaxy. We're a lowly Type 0 civilization, which means that we have not yet attained the technology needed to make full use out of all of our planet's resources.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_body#Radiative_cooling

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by chvid on Thursday April 04, 2019 @07:28AM (#19570940)
As I see it price is driven by our ability to consume energy and our ability to produce. The first part will peter out (you can only use so much heating, only so much transport) whereas the second part continues to grow long before we hit any sort of fundamental limit.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by GistNoesis on Thursday April 04, 2019 @06:50AM (#19570789)
>A small increase in temperature significantly increases the amount of energy radiated,

The temperature in the formula is given in Kelvins, so for all practical purposes (300K less than 10°K variation), the 4th power means every degree increase the amount of energy radiated by ~1.3%

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by cedivad on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:21AM (#19570235)
I think you meant going to infinity.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by bryanlarsen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:17AM (#19571899)
The Canadian & Venezuelan oil sands have about 4 trillion barrels of "Original Oil in Place". At current oil prices and level of technological development, only about 10% of this oil is considered recoverable and as such counted as reserves. But technology marches on, and if we start running out of oil from other sources, so will oil prices. So really, the world has hundreds of years worth of reserves.

Much more concerning is that we have to keep ~80% of those 52 years worth of oil in the ground to keep climate change under the 2 degree goal...

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by Fjolsvith on Thursday April 04, 2019 @11:07PM (#19579317)
> Much more concerning is that we have to keep ~80% of those 52 years worth of oil in the ground to keep climate change under the 2 degree goal...

Says who?

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by Iv on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:32AM (#19570051)
What I am the most worried about the depletion of oil is that most people assume it will be a bell curve, like US' (conventional) oil production was.

Thing is, it was a bell as people switched to other more profitable sources of oil as US' oil was becoming more expensive. I fear the depletion of world's reserve could look a lot more like a cliff.

The absence of alternatives changes a lot the fundamentals of the problem.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by anonymou2 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:47AM (#19570106)
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by cjslep on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:28AM (#19570034)
Good luck making plastic.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by cfontes on Thursday April 04, 2019 @03:34AM (#19570060)
There is already bio-plastic, it's just expensive because oil is super cheap.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by A2017U1 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:13AM (#19570418)
Planes? There's no other alternative than biofuels unless you are happy landing every 2 hours.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by fulafel on Thursday April 04, 2019 @07:42AM (#19570996)
Nuclear works too. The Burevestnik apparently (accorfing to WP) is flying a tubojet or turbofan nuclear engine.

Also conventional fuel can be made from pretty much any carbon using https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_proc...

Hydrogen would also work vas a fuel.

Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by cannedslime on Thursday April 04, 2019 @05:19AM (#19570439)
Biofules are easy to make from crops. Getting jetfuel aka. Diesel from fatty seeds is trivial.
Re:The Biggest Saudi Oil Field Is Fading Faster Than Anyone ... by simonh on Thursday April 04, 2019 @04:25AM (#19570245)
This is the cheapest oil to pump in the world, therefore it is likely to be the last to ramp down production. All the others will become uneconomical before this one does and therefore, unless they tap out while prices are still high, will stay in the ground longer.