News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by mateo1 on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @04:23AM (#19552073)
Those 2 libraries are the closest thing to the modern internet equivalent of the "Library of Alexandria". I hope they don't manage to burn in down.

Yes, for now governments only caught up to DNS level blocking, but more effective measures will follow if we don't change the political willingness to withhold knowledge from the masses.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by vanderZwan on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @05:10AM (#19552296)
> Those 2 libraries are the closest thing to the modern internet equivalent of the "Library of Alexandria". I hope they don't manage to burn in down.

This just reminds of how in the late nineties and early 2000s we used to have torrent sites for music enthusiasts with an archive of all the different versions, editions, bootlegs, all painstakingly added and catalogued, representing tens if not hundreds of man-hours worth of work by people who simply love music and wanted to share that love with other enthusiasts, creating some of the richest catalogues of music and music metadata the world has ever seen. And then it all was destroyed.

And this was true for many other topics of interest too.

We have burned many digital libraries in the last few decades, and we will probably continue to do so for a while longer.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by dTal on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:59AM (#19552785)
More like hundreds of man-years, when you factor in all the editions, bootlegs etc that are now forever lost to time.

This should be a golden age for information preservation. Instead it's a dark age. I personally know several eye-wateringly good bands whose catalogs are not available anywhere, at all.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by derefr on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @10:55AM (#19554739)
Given that those were torrent sites, they weren’t hosting the content. The individuals seeding the content still likely have copies of it. They just have no easy, obvious place to share it where they won’t get in trouble for doing so... for now. But if such a technology shows up later, the (already ripped and preserved) content might just show back up along with it.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Bartweiss on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @12:25PM (#19555840)
This is a good point; it's amazing what's still out there. Bitrot does set in over time, though, and the less distributed a work is the worse its odds of living through each new tech transition. I've known people who still have cassette recordings of concerts that are publicly considered "lost". Hopefully they digitize and back up, but not all of them will.

Even the brief bloom of the torrent and sharing scene was incredible, though. Scarce works that circulate manually are in near-constant jeopardy, because every new copy takes new effort. But a whole lot of unique content, from jam-band tapes to obscure translated books, just showed up on torrent sites and got shared widely. Even if it's inaccessible at the moment, that stretch may have spawned enough copies to endure across the next few transitions.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by derefr on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @04:20PM (#19558185)
> Bitrot does set in over time, though, and the less distributed a work is the worse its odds of living through each new tech transition.

Eh, I feel like we've almost fully gotten away from bit-rot. Bit-rot was a problem because individuals don't bother to go to the effort of constant IT administration, and don't have the economies of scale required to afford good data redundancy.

But individuals don't have to back things up "personally" any more. With one command, I can send three copies of any file to three object-storage providers. Each one (according to the Dynamo architecture, which they mostly all implement) is holding 17 copies of the data on 17 shards, and replaces copies from the good ones whenever they go bad. Each provider's copies only exist in one region, but the region is different for each provider selected. As individual object-storage providers die, I can find new ones and sync my data over from the surviving ones. As long as "cloud [redundant] object storage" as a concept exists, I won't have to do much at all to ensure continued integrity of my data. All the details—including porting my data to new physical substrates when old formats die—are being handled under the abstraction, and converted into (tiny!) monthly fees that are lower than what even a zero-redundancy tape library would cost me.

And, of course, the data I'm sending is encrypted, and not even with a symmetric key, but rather a PKI key where the decryption half of the key is held in cold storage (i.e. in hardcopy base64 in a safety deposit box at a bank; and a few other places.) If I'm uploading rips of something copyrighted, nobody will ever know that but me. I'll be able to get the data back out when the time comes to dust it off and share it.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Mediterraneo10 on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @04:42PM (#19558370)
In the HD movie torrent community – people sharing full Blu-ray images – a person’s collection can run into the many terabytes. My own collection amounts to 8TB and is only content I have watched personally and am interested in, while torrent communities greatly benefit from obsessive hoarders who download and seed content beyond their personal interests. There is no economical solution to back up that much data on the cloud, and bitrot does set in.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by derefr on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @05:40PM (#19558854)
If you're not spending at least as much money (+ labor opportunity-cost) on your own data-storage solution as it costs to back the data up to the cloud, your data isn't safe.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by komali2 on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @11:31AM (#19555189)
The /r/datahoarder subreddit is full of people like this. I'm happy they exist, if nothing else so at least there may be a digital record of our civilization if it's destroyed.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by nerdponx on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @01:13PM (#19556405)
"Data hoarding" along these lines is, IMO, an admirable use of time and money, and I wish that I had more of both so I could participate. One day I hope to.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by StavrosK on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @11:52AM (#19555460)
Is there any technical reason we can't make a distributed tracker/community like what.cd, given that torrents are already distributed and ZeroNet et al exist? All we'd need is the forums and ratio bookkeeping.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by yipbub on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:10AM (#19552841)
Could you give me an example?
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by dTal on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:31AM (#19553318)
Sure. Mooi were formed in 1999, split in 2006, made a bunch of great music in between, and all that remains is this one song on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF5cP8S0zOk

The masters still exist, I'm told, but that's no good to anyone - they won't be re-released because it would require too much intellectual property wrangling and nobody cares enough to bother, and sooner or later that hard drive will die and that will be that.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by xhrpost on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @11:24AM (#19555091)
That's a shame. Looks like this one song managed to get on Google Play: https://play.google.com/music/m/Thsq5haec2ixuguqiep4bnfzcmi?...
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by CydeWeys on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @11:40AM (#19555301)
Did they ever release their music on CDs? If so, surely some of those CDs are still out there somewhere and could be ripped, if only they could be tracked down. I guess that just hasn't happened yet though.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Simon_says on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @10:03AM (#19554170)
That's great song. Thanks for getting me interested in a band I can't torrent.

Edit: Wait. Am I part of the problem?

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Raphmedia on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @10:39AM (#19554544)
"Formed in 1999, Mooi are duo Rachel Lloyd and Laura Dickinson. The pair write heartfelt and intimate songs, with both members playing guitars and singing."

If you want more, look either of them up.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by jacquesm on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @09:37AM (#19553887)
Mooi! Thank you for that link.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Bartweiss on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @12:38PM (#19556008)
What.cd hosted, among other things, three unpublished Salinger stories. They were swiftly taken down by the site hosts over demands from his estate, but narrowly made it onto BitTorrent and other sites, and are still available today.

Meanwhile, a lot of unique live-concert recordings (often made with the band's permission, unlike the Salinger tapes) vanished with the demise of What.CD. Presumably some people still have them, if bit rot hasn't caught up, but they simply ceased to be available.

I'm not sure these ever landed on torrent sites, but the first album from Godspeed You! Black Emperor is considered lost, and Eminem's debut EP was unavailable for more than a decade. Both are (early-)digital-era works, which raises interesting questions about the fragility of even modern content. The archive-less disappearance of quite a few online short stories, flash games, and Soundcloud tracks makes me suspect that in a few decades, quite a few more "first works" of notable creators will be unavailable.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by AnaniasAnanas on Thursday April 04, 2019 @11:42PM (#19579503)
This is the negative of private invite-only trackers like what.cd. If they end up closing a lot of data gets dies with them. In contrast to that piratebay and nyaa.pantsu regularly upload their databases and there are even offline database readers for them.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Bartweiss on Friday April 05, 2019 @01:53PM (#19585251)
This is very true, yeah.

Years ago, I was on a university private tracker. It was used more to share hard-to-find resources than for any actual piracy, much less piracy of anything new or policed. (I'm sure people stole plenty of 50-year-old textbook PDFs.) But when the hoster shut it down abruptly, everything simply vanished, including all kinds of hand-scanned and annotated stuff which may be literally irreplaceable.

Meanwhile, something like Kickass Torrents can be shut down and abandoned by the owners, but the content all reappears almost immediately. The private-tracker model has lots of advantages for community building, but as far as robustness it undermines the entire concept of P2P sharing.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by yardie on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @01:21PM (#19556468)
I still have a 56kbps MP3 copy of Eminem’s first EP sent to me, pre-Napster, over AIM. I didn’t even realize it wasn’t unavailable until this post. And my son loves Eminem.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Bartweiss on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @03:44PM (#19557865)
It looks like some copies hit the open internet around 2009, and a few of the songs has been remastered as promotional gimmicks. But yeah, I remember looking a bunch of years ago and finding that the title and one other song (Open Mic, maybe?) were the only things in circulation.

It's sort of funny to see that even something released post-internet can float in and out of availability like that. I generally class recent content as "lost" or "available", but obviously there's still a third category.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by MereInterest on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @10:09AM (#19554232)
As a non-music example (and please somebody prove me wrong), I cannot find the 1954 movie "So This is Paris", starring Tony Curtis. No copies available anywhere on amazon, ebay, or searching through internet sites. There was a short clip of one of the songs on Youtube a few years ago, but it was taken down for copyright infringement. I simply cannot find it anywhere.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Dirlewanger on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @09:56AM (#19554080)
what.cd. I only used it sparingly, but apparently they had a lot of rare releases that existed nowhere else. Vanished overnight with the feds taking it down.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by layoutIfNeeded on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @12:54PM (#19556206)
Actually it was a reverse proxy that was taken down, and they didn’t even target what.cd, it was collateral damage. The admins got scared nevertheless and pulled the plug.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by mcs_ on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:51AM (#19553050)
Not sure if it applies but... The entire Google plus.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by vanderZwan on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @11:35AM (#19555243)
> More like hundreds of man-years

Yes, I just noticed I accidentally dropped the "of thousands" part while writing my comments.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by lucasverra on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:44AM (#19553020)
agreed : "too much information kills information"
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Vaskivo on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:12AM (#19553176)
I remember a torrent site for old games. You had tremendous community efforts documenting and cataloging games. Gathering every thing from the different releases, patches, music, art, etc.

It was a gaming historian's wet dream. They were even beginning to record the releases from different warez scene groups.

But everything went away because, form what I gathered, someone in EA noticed you could download FIFA 96 for the Mega Drive/Genesis.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the site. RIP

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by orbital-decay on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @09:15AM (#19553692)
It was Underground Gamer. The quality of the collection was astonishing, many games were impossible to get or purchase anywhere else due to abandonment. And everything just disappeared overnight.

People still have all this on their drives. I'm sure the community can be revived someday.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Vaskivo on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @10:44AM (#19554596)
It WAS! Thank you.

I sure hope the community can be revived.

There's a lot more bandwidth and cheap storage today than 10 years ago. I'd love to be able to contribute and share to it.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by vanderZwan on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @11:34AM (#19555219)
> People still have all this on their drives. I'm sure the community can be revived someday.

I so dearly hope this is true for other sites like What.CD

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by billfruit on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @10:01AM (#19554139)
Perhaps it was "Home of the Underdogs", http://homeoftheunderdogs.net
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by tapoxi on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @09:50AM (#19554008)
I imagine EA doesn't care about sales of FIFA 96, but they sure as shit worry about losing their FIFA license.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Vaskivo on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @10:46AM (#19554617)
Playing devil's advocate, I think some lawyer got nervous about the licensed stuff in those games.

The FIFA games usually have licenses to use the teams and player names. and lots of licensed music.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by vanderZwan on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @04:27PM (#19558237)
IANAL so I'm genuinely asking: isn't that the responsibility of the licensed teams/player names/musicians and not of EA?
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by GGfpc on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @05:49AM (#19552449)
What.cd going down was terrible for that exact reason.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by kristofferR on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:54AM (#19553060)
Yup, thankfully there are some great alternatives now.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by neau on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:06AM (#19553138)
keep it on the dl, dude...
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by whitepoplar on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @10:12AM (#19554256)
Would you be able to privately message me with some said alternatives? I'm dying in the post-what era.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by cpeters10 on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @05:26AM (#19552368)
Perhaps someone should painstakingly make a catalog of the internal web stacks of SV companies for people who love code.

I'm sure that "library of Alexandria" would be burned quite quickly.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by RugnirViking on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:26AM (#19553281)
You're trying to make a snarky comment, but this is exactly what patents are supposed to do...

Reveal how inventions and large companies work, as opposed to the old cloak-and-dagger method of 'secret formulas' and such. Then allowing anybody to see the method and licence it from the company, or be liable for a lawsuit.

What we used to have is if somebody somehow stole the secret to an invention it became fair game. Nowadays though companies try to game the system by having intentionally labrinthian patchworks of patents that do their best to not reveal anything about how the invention works while still being able to be used to sue people.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by agentphil on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @05:50AM (#19552457)
Doesn't https://builtwith.com do that already?
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by 0815test on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:34AM (#19553344)
> I'm sure that "library of Alexandria" would be burned quite quickly.

Rightly so-- and nothing of value would be lost. SV companies don't have much in the way of "secret sauce", they just have $$$ to burn (from VC weenies buying equity stakes) for hosting costs and for developing increasingly-crappy web frontends.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by andrepd on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:37AM (#19552669)
Thus, but unironically.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by agentphil on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @05:51AM (#19552460)
Alternatively this: https://stackshare.io
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by dzhiurgis on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:19AM (#19552583)
Soulseek is still pretty solid

A lot of it was about album collecting which frankly is not working the same anymore

Personally I am sad iOS poorly supports listening mixes plus Soundcloud slowly destroying itself...

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Dirlewanger on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @09:58AM (#19554107)
Soulseek is great, but you're essentially taking a gamble hoping that you aren't downloading some shitty transcode.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by dzhiurgis on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @03:27AM (#19561471)
fs trigger to check actual bitrate could help
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by Dirlewanger on Thursday April 04, 2019 @01:53PM (#19575158)
Mind explaining what this is? All I'm seeing are results for Jenkins plugins...
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by nwhitehead on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @01:14PM (#19556416)
OLGA was full of transcribed songs, great for learning guitar. Now it's gone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-line_Guitar_Archive

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by jordigh on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:34AM (#19552964)
Well, they weren't torrent sites in the late 90s and probably not the early 2000s either. The Bittorrent protocol wasn't released until July 2001 and it took a few years to get popular.

Back then, they were just servers you downloaded stuff from.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by epanchin on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:33AM (#19553338)
Napster started in 1999. Search was centralised, but downloads were p2p.

Edit: it shut down in 2001, and everyone I knew at the time was using it. vanderZwan might have misused the word torrent, but the rest of his post is spot on.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by YUMad on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:10AM (#19553166)
SuprNova started in 2nd half od 2002. Anime subbing groups also started offerin torrents very early.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by ElCapitanMarkla on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @11:05AM (#19563912)
I forgot about SuprNova. That site had me pushing my 10gb cap every month
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by zrav on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:43AM (#19553016)
torrent.ru still is excellent for music, as long as you manage to register despite the cyrillic text.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by NoirDesir on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:29AM (#19553309)
RIP Oink.me :(
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by layoutIfNeeded on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @12:49PM (#19556160)
>And then it all was destroyed.

We still have communities like that, but you need the right connections to get in.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by 0815test on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @02:05PM (#19556940)
So, like the warez d00dz of old? That's to be expected I suppose, but not really what parent poster was talking about!
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by layoutIfNeeded on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @03:52PM (#19557933)
Nah, not the WaReZ scene (which is also very much alive), but the private torrent trackers, like HDBits, redacted, passthepopcorn, etc.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by 0815test on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:23AM (#19552908)
OK, since it looks like these libraries are going down after all, can we systematically download the content in them that's verifiably in the public domain, and upload it to the Internet Archive so that it becomes legitimately available and findable? There's a lot of such stuff that gets entirely fraudulent copyright claims tacked on to it, or claims that might apply only to supplemental matter (especially prefaces) that can be stripped out of a (DRM-free!) PDF file. And if something was first published before the late 19th century, it's quite obviously PD even in "life+X" countries where it might be hard to find info about all the people who could've had a hand in it back then.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by random878 on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:47AM (#19553035)
My issue with this is that in a way it gives strength to their argument - i.e. segregation reinforces the concept of there being a fundamental difference between the two groups.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by 0815test on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:57AM (#19553076)
Well, practically, there absolutely is a difference. You can host above-board content any way you like, even on things like IPFS, and tell anyone who makes fraudulent copyright claims about it to sod off-- but if you're not being totally above-board, you won't get that luxury. It's a very different trade-off compared to the likes of SH and LG, and one that's quite valuable.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by acct1771 on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:26AM (#19553277)
No, you still get that luxury.

Just until the people with guns come.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by ridgeguy on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @12:06PM (#19555599)
I hope these are archived as they accrete content. Assembling and torrenting sub-petabyte archives can't be easy, but it beats stirring the ashes of a digital Alexandria to find snippets of knowledge.

Donating to Sci-Hub today.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by papermill on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @12:03PM (#19555562)
You could argue that the internet itself is the greatest library we've ever had and over the past decade, the internet has been slowly destroyed. The saddest part is that it isn't the luddites or religious fundamentalists behind the destruction of knowledge and the internet. It's politicians, journalists and CEOs behind the incredible push to "clean up" the internet. The internet went from an anonymous information sharing space to a pathetic censored version of facebook/twitter/google.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by class4behavior on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @05:28AM (#19552376)
>(...) but more effective measures will follow if we don't change the political willingness to withhold knowledge from the masses.

The EU just passed the directive for the new copyright package which further cements the status quo (the two often mentioned articles are just the worst of it), so don't expect any progress if people don't start to elect more progressive politicians.

The projections for the EU election show that the shares of the fractions won't change much, beside a slight shift to the right. The composition of the Conservative wing, however, will become more Euroskeptic and nationalistic.

And from an economic perspective, I don't see any big shift towards more consumer-oriented party programs, while the right-wing generally tends to be liberal(classical), or neoliberal even, anyway.

P.S.: To avoid DNS blocking, use a DNS server from a private party; and since in some countries such data streams are manipulated, use encrypted DNS to ensure integrity. https://dnscrypt.info/faq

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by swebs on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:29AM (#19552932)
>In 2018, support [for the copyright directive] in the European Parliament was led by the European People's Party group and the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, the parliament's two largest groups

>Opposition in the European Parliament is led by populist parties including Poland's ruling Law and Justice party, Italy's ruling Five Star Movement/Lega Nord coalition, and the UK Independence Party. Other opponents include a large number of smaller parties at either end of the political spectrum.[66][72] Notable among these is the Pirate Party Germany, whose sole MEP Julia Reda has been an outspoken opponent of the proposal.[73]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Copyright_in_the_...

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by class4behavior on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:57AM (#19553081)
Your political position is evaluated based on your actual opinion and decisions, not just what you announce yourself to be.

I did not orientate my statement based on party names and official affiliations, but the overall political and economical nature and priorities of the copyright directive and actual policies the EP fractions vote for.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by narag on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:10AM (#19552530)
I don't know about other countries, but in Spain the left wing is the best friend of the copyright lobby.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by AsyncAwait on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:57AM (#19552769)
Are they "left-wing" or socially left neoliberals.

There is a difference between "left-wing" as in economic AND social leftism vs the sort of neoliberal, "Third Way" politics, which equal socially left-wing, but economically center-right.

Most of the "social democratic" parties in Europe are that way these days. They don't really champion economic populism, wealth redistribution etc.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by narag on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @02:13PM (#19557005)
I'm not sure what you mean with "socially left-wing". Is that something that doesn't cost money?

And IMO there are no (neo)liberals in Spain, if you listen to facts instead of words.

Every party currently in Parliament is big-state. PP raised taxes over Zapatero levels and public expenses even more, systematically breaking expense limits every single year they were in government.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by AsyncAwait on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @02:49PM (#19557342)
> I'm not sure what you mean with "socially left-wing".

They're pro choice, pro LGBTQ etc. but also very much pro things like privatization.

As for "Is that something that doesn't cost money?" - that's a childish question that is almost not worth answering. Maintaining a functioning society always costs money, there's infrastructure & services to maintain.

Taxes are going to get collected, so for me the only real question is if they're going to be spent on moving the country forward, supporting those in need of support and improving services, (healthcare etc.) & infrastructure, (bridges, roads...), making sure publicly funded research stays public, going after corporate tax evasion and so on... or if they're going to be spent on bloated military contracts etc.

Sadly, the supposed left-wing in most of Europe today is not focusing on healthcare, infrastructure etc. in a major way and thus the distinction between them and the right seems rather thin. They're both fairly pro-corporate, thus the main distinction is the social politics, which rarely address people's economic concerns.

As for big state, I don't know, Mariano Rajoy, a right-winger was willing to send "the State" to violently suppress an independence referendum. Not sure how that squares with you.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by narag on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:36PM (#19559256)
...that's a childish question that is almost not worth answering

Wow, thank you. That actually saves me time. Once somebody answers like that, it's clear that any effort to reason would be a waste.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by AsyncAwait on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @05:37AM (#19562009)
You do you, I just wish you were more honest in also quoting what was this reaction to & my reasoning for saying that. On the other hand, that may lead you to stop saying nonsense like that in the first place.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by sampo on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:34AM (#19552654)
Also from Finland, the left wing (Social Democrat, Left Alliance) MEPs voted in favor of Article 13 recently.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by hevi_jos on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:15AM (#19552560)
It is clear reading your comment that you do this transformation in your head automatically:

Progressive = Left = Good

Right = Bad

I don't believe that the access to what public funding pays (public research) is intrinsically linked to the left, quite the opposite.

In the past for example while the US published a lot of information in public journals, Soviet Russia was very secretive about theirs(while benefiting from the West). US was not leftist than Soviet Russia.

While the left wants to link themselves to the idea of "progress", hence the auto denominated name "progressive", I don't see the progress anywhere after watching the process take action in Europe multiple times(North Americans have not experienced real left in power), quite the opposite.

The left wants to create a monster State. Once in place individuals have no power at all. Everything is controlled top down and as there is only one entity, there is no competition.

There is way more risk of "regulatory capture" when there is only one entity than when competition exist. Journals ownership of what public funding pays is a case of regulatory capture.

Scientists should demand their work to be in the open, or it will not really be science.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by psychoslave on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:24AM (#19553261)
AsyncAwait have a point here, the comment start with a "don't fall into simplistic extreme dualism.

Neither brightest human achievements nor genocide happen only under a single political orientation flag.

There are people that are admirably altruist and awesomely creative regardless of the main political forces going on where they live. And there are people seeking to concentrate always more power for themselves regardless of socioeconomic consequences for others under any flag of the day which would serve this purpose.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by AsyncAwait on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:08AM (#19552828)
> The left wants to create a monster State. Once in place individuals have no power at all. Everything is controlled top down and as there is only one entity, there is no competition

You started by criticizing a simplistic analysis of Left == good, Right == bad, but you just flipped Right == good, Left == bad and offered such a juvenile, simplistic analysis, it's honestly laughable.

When it comes to the left, you'd have to distinguish between neoliberals, (socially left, economically centre-right), which is who's been in power in Europe when it comes to the left. You fail to realize that there is a thing called "left-wing libertarianism", in fact libertarianism originated with the left and most people, apart from Americans, understood libertarianism to be left-wing.

There's no "monster State" advocated there. It's more about ensuring equality of opportunity, (not outcome(!)), promoting cooperatives etc. In reality, these would be beneficial for competition, because it promotes more people being able to take the risk of having a business, since there's a social safety net.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by codedokode on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @06:56AM (#19552762)
What if we look at the sitiuation from publishers' point of view? Yesterday those weird scientints gave to you the rights to their works, and the next day they demand that you allow them to read their works for free.
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by jimktrains2 on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:10AM (#19552839)
> Yesterday those weird scientints gave to you the rights to their works.

Yesterday there weren't any, let alone good, alternatives. Even today with good alternatives, the way publishing in "high impact" journals is tied to pay can make the issue not really have other options.

Free access to knowledge is fairly foundational to science and something that's has been talked about for a while. This isn't a new problem. It comes as a surprise to no one.

This is doubly true given the amount of government money spent on this research that is then being kept from the public.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by AGWeir on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @09:37AM (#19553892)
In the UK all research councils and the National Institute for Health Research awards carry restrictions that everything is made open access. It is a step in the right direction but it also means that more government funding is just going to journals via paying article processing charges
Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by codedokode on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:18AM (#19552876)
But today, even with alternatives present, scientists still give away or sell their rights to the journals.

The scientists are often paid be the government. So it is the government that creates this situation and makes "high impact" journals what they are. It is the government that doesn't mandate free access to the knowledge.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by pfortuny on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @08:19AM (#19553229)
The thing is: as long as you do not have tenure, you simply CANNOT fight. At least in a meaningful way.

My case, by the way.

Re:French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen by jimktrains2 on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @07:34AM (#19552965)
Yes, I covered that in my response. Alternatives exist, but can't be used in circumstances where your career may be on the line.

I agree, however, that receiving government funding should require open access publishing.