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Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by k_sze on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:41AM (#19513276)
From practical and philosophical points of view, if the container and its cargo are stuck at the bottom of the sea forever, is it really a problem?

Of course, I'm aware that random man-made things polluting the oceans is a bad thing in general, but in this specific case, if the plastic is just stuck there forever, is it still pollution in practical terms? The electronics inside the phones probably won't pass modern environmental standards (e.g. RoHS), so let's forget about the electronics for now and only focus on the plastic.

On the one hand, does the plastic release toxic chemicals in high enough concentration as it decomposes (slowly?)? On the other hand, does the container and its cargo somehow become a new shelter/habitat for certain species of marine life?

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by glenneroo on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:51AM (#19513372)
Toxic chemicals are only one aspect of pollution. AFAIK the more serious threat is from plastic decomposing into micro/nano-sized particles, which are then consumed by plankton who then perish and/or are consumed by ever-larger creatures in the food chain. Plankton are vital for our species' survival, since they produce 50-85% of the world's oxygen supply, as well as feeding all other living things in the ocean (and eventually ending up in Human stomachs).
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by blackflame7000 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:56AM (#19513432)
Yea but the ocean is full of things decomposing into small particles. Rocks for one.
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by coryrc on Thursday March 28, 2019 @12:25PM (#19513714)
I don't think you should be downvoted, as it's a valid observation.

Nanoplastics concentrate toxic compounds within themselves, smuggling them past animals' defense system. This does not happen with rock. There has not been enough time for animals to evolve systems to remove nanoplastics from their bodies.

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by throwaway5752 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @12:58PM (#19514108)
I don't doubt that microplastics are not good for the environment and organisms that consume them, but can you provide a citation for the toxin concentration claim so I can learn more about it?
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by Reelin on Friday March 29, 2019 @06:00AM (#19520310)
The wording of the grandparent comment was sloppy.

You might try DOI 10.1039/C8NR09321K (https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2019/nr/c8nr0...).

In summary, for whatever reason it seems that nanoparticles of some plastics readily penetrate and accumulate in biological tissues. There are also chemicals that will adsorb onto these nanoparticles. This can make a chemical at a given concentration more toxic to an organism, or even potentially make something toxic that was previously not.

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by A2017U1 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @10:12PM (#19518567)
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by blackflame7000 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:34PM (#19515156)
That was my point, to suggest that the size of the particles alone shouldn't pose a hazard, there must be more going on.
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by glenneroo on Thursday March 28, 2019 @12:31PM (#19513788)
Yes but I assume that plankton are smart enough not to eat rock particles, since they have both existed for millions/billions of years and plankton have adapted to discern between edible/inedible, whereas plastic is a very recent invention and is easily mistaken as a food source.

Perhaps you need an analogy:

Consider if a company were to sell you a plastic hamburgers disguised as a real hamburgers (i.e. how advertising food products used to be before being outlawed). Now, pretend you could swallow and ingest a hamburger whole (without chewing i.e. how plankton eat). What do you think will happen to your body?

Here is a video in case you are unable to follow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beUhzQAkanM

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by blackflame7000 on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:28PM (#19515105)
Knowing what to eat is actually a very advanced function. There are humans that don't even know not to eat paste. Dogs that eat feces. Teenagers that eat TidePods. Plankton is at a severe disadvantage when comparing neurons.
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by magduf on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:55PM (#19515341)
>Dogs that eat feces.

Yet another reason why it baffles me that anyone wants one of these things as a pet.

Cats are smart enough not to eat feces, theirs or anyone else's. They're also smart enough to do their best to bury their own feces so they don't stink up your place.

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by freeflight on Thursday March 28, 2019 @04:40PM (#19516366)
That's just the toxoplasmosis talking [0], the little furry monsters have already made you their servant.

In contrast to cats, these dog "things" can actually be very useful, and extremely loyal [1], working animals.

[0] https://www.sciencealert.com/we-finally-know-how-the-mind-al...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachik%C5%8D

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by jimmaswell on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:34PM (#19515157)
It's my understanding that the dog isn't harmed by doing that, and it's just a way to recoup/find missing nutrients.
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by nothrabannosir on Thursday March 28, 2019 @12:36PM (#19513852)
This point stands without the snark. I understand the frustration when people poopooh climate issues, but at the end of the day, nobody is served by a slapfest.

Would you please consider editing to remove the snarky jabs?

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by scrollaway on Thursday March 28, 2019 @12:41PM (#19513913)
I'm not reading snark in the parent's response. Consider giving people the benefit of the doubt.
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by smogcutter on Thursday March 28, 2019 @01:57PM (#19514789)
> Perhaps you need an analogy

> Here is a video in case you are unable to follow:

This is patronizing and rude.

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by magduf on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:58PM (#19515368)
Possibly, but in cases where someone is being willfully obtuse (which I'm not claiming is the case here, but I see it elsewhere a lot), how else are you supposed to respond? Constantly being polite when someone is being willfully contrary actually seems to result in the other person appearing to win the argument according to bystanders. We see this in politics all the time: the candidates who sling mud and make bad arguments and cite outright falsehoods win elections, while the ones who always take the high road lose.
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by glenneroo on Thursday March 28, 2019 @03:39PM (#19515793)
It definitely wasn't my intention, but you're right that I could have worded it better. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, I'll pay more attention in the future.
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by glenneroo on Thursday March 28, 2019 @03:36PM (#19515762)
Apologies, I honestly didn't mean to be snarky :( I'll try to watch for that in the future.
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by orf on Thursday March 28, 2019 @12:18PM (#19513646)
Well that's OK then. Thank god.
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by CydeWeys on Thursday March 28, 2019 @12:27PM (#19513734)
It's not buried at the bottom of the sea though. It's in a cave on the shore.

And the cargo is not stuck on the bottom of the sea permanently either; it's periodically washing ashore and causing ongoing pollution and litter problems.

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by vectorEQ on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:45AM (#19513318)
its still polution to the life in the ocean. humans aren't the only ones inhabiting this place as you point out. (taking into account there could be any number of containers - as if one ends up there, it's likely this process of it ending up there is not unique)
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by fearhugs on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:50AM (#19513364)
"Pollution is the introduction of contaminants into the natural environment that cause adverse change."[1]

I think the above comment is questioning whether this container is causing `adverse' change. If not then I suppose this particular case wouldn't be classified as pollution.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by tengbretson on Thursday March 28, 2019 @12:25PM (#19513713)
Should we consider sea snails leaving behind their shells when they die litter?
Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by perilunar on Thursday March 28, 2019 @10:05PM (#19518539)
Yes, but 'litter' is not necessarily bad. Fallen leaves are 'leaf litter' for example.

The problem is not litter per se, but how it degrades over time. Shells become sand, leaves become soil. Glass becomes sea glass. Plastics become deadly blockages in animals stomachs.

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by jschwartzi on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:19PM (#19515004)
If one beach had a million sea snails leaving shells behind, and the beach were cluttered with them, and it was choking out any other life on the beach, then yeah we would consider that litter.

It's the same as when sea urchins devour whole kelp forests, rendering parts of the sea floor totally barren. One or two urchins aren't a big deal but when they breed without limits they can completely destroy an ocean ecosystem. And so we kill them off when we need to to try to be good stewards of our planet.

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by tengbretson on Thursday March 28, 2019 @03:45PM (#19515832)
> If one beach...

The very existence of beaches at all is the result of the overwhelming dead remains of billions of diatoms and crushed shells. I have no doubt there would be a totally different ecosystem if it weren't for their remains.

Re:Garfield phones beach mystery finally solved by andrewflnr on Thursday March 28, 2019 @09:57PM (#19518502)
So if some organisms were naturally excreting a chemical toxic to most life on the planet, with no feedback mechanism to stop them, you'd be against that, right? Don't answer that, it's a trick question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event