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Re:The New iPad Mini by emsy on Friday March 22, 2019 @05:13PM (#19467028)
Apple's lineup is getting so confusing. The iPad Mini is praised by a lot of Apple enthusiasts but for me it just adds more chaos to their product lineup. Which tablet supports which pen? Can I connect my iPad to my Macbook using the included cables? Do I charge with USB-C or lightning? Does my device support 3D touch? What's the difference between an iPad and an iPad Air? What's the difference between the Macbook and the Macbook Air and why is the Air thicker? Does my Mac have a T2 chip (the new iMacs don't). Can I get my device of choice with 128GB (only the XR, not the XS). There's too much segmentation and I think it's appropriate to ask whether this would've happened under Steve. If I can't keep up with this mess, how do they expect non-tech people to do so?
Re:The New iPad Mini by chipotle_coyote on Friday March 22, 2019 @06:14PM (#19467489)
I would argue that the problem with the MacBook line currently is that there's not enough segmentation. The 13" non-Touchbar MacBook Pro and the new Air are confusingly similar, the 12" MacBook seems like it was supposed to have replaced the Air but is now just hanging around shuffling its feet awkwardly, the old non-retina Air is also still hanging around just so they can say they have a laptop for $999, etc.

The iPad lineup to me doesn't seem particularly confusing at all, other than perhaps the naming. There's pretty clear differentiation across the products and price points. I'll be honest, I think some of your questions are deliberately overstated; I think Apple expects "non-tech people" aren't ripping their hair out over the difference between Lighting and USB-C, because they look at the charging cable that came with their new iThing and can pretty easily figure out which end goes into the iThing and which end goes into the wall socket. Most people don't connect their iPads to their MacBooks. Most people shrug at the weird naming. These are mostly tech pundit problems. I would love it if the MacBook lineup could be as clear and non-stupid as the iPad lineup again.

I think it's appropriate to ask whether this would've happened under Steve.

There are certainly things Apple has done in the last five years that make me ask that question, from the Touchbar to the butterfly keyboard to the way iOS's text editing controls, especially with external keyboards, are still shit compared to the Mac after nearly a decade. "But the Air is thicker!" is...just not one of them.

Re:The New iPad Mini by emsy on Friday March 22, 2019 @07:04PM (#19467776)
Some problems might be overstated. But I recently had to explain to my cousin the Macbook lineup and how she connects her devices, so it's not just made up. I agree, they should make more distinct models. The current line up is still cleaner than probably any phone/laptop vendor's but also the worst I've seen from Apple and I don't think the reason is that they offer more products than ever.
Re:The New iPad Mini by csydas on Friday March 22, 2019 @07:12PM (#19467819)
Well, let's not mince words here -- The new Air was released to capitalize on the popularity of the Air name. I am still working on a mid-2012 MacBook Air (this very post), and it serves me extremely well. That's 7 years almost on the same machine and the only application that gives me any trouble is Microsoft Teams, but even on my Windows desktop Teams runs like a drunk sloth, so I don't even consider it a fault.

Apple's only mistake with the new Air, IMO, is not keeping the old keyboard. I'm right on the verge of needing a new laptop and I'm eagerly looking at a MacBook Air 2018; the keyboard gives me pause, just because it's different than what I'm used to. But the Air name alone, the form factor, and how it's built is basically perfect for me. It does everything I need and then some without making me wait.

As to which you should be choosing though...that is a tough one. The MBP line doesn't feel as unique as it used to, as the price point is just too high for me to justify it to anyone, and the low-end MBPs are basically just heavier MacBook Airs.

Re:The New iPad Mini by chipotle_coyote on Saturday March 23, 2019 @04:15AM (#19469561)
I have a 13" MacBook Pro (non-Touchbar), the computer that kind of seemed like "the new MacBook Air" before there was actually, well, a new MacBook Air, and...honestly, I don't think the new keyboard is that bad. I don't love it, by any stretch, but it's something you can get used to, and the slight redesign in the new Air should make it a bit more resilient.

(I wouldn't be surprised to see a new keyboard design roll out across some Mac laptops as early as this year, but if it does, it won't come to the Air for a while. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the new design is still optimized for extreme thinness.)

Re:The New iPad Mini by erikpukinskis on Saturday March 23, 2019 @04:22PM (#19472162)
I bought my second 2012 Air earlier this year. That vintage is so good. I have zero complaints... I'm not sure I'll ever need a better laptop.

It's also wonderful that when I need a new machine it's just $350.

Re:The New iPad Mini by graeme on Friday March 22, 2019 @07:35PM (#19467955)
This seems like more of a problem with the laptop lineup. If the lineup had a usb a port as well as usb c, there would be no confusion about what connects, no matter which ipad you have.

Most people still have usb a peripherals, so the laptop situation is confusing. I do podcasting and had to advise someone in the industry on the i/o of new macbooks, it's not obvious for most.

Re:The New iPad Mini by Marsymars on Friday March 22, 2019 @07:15PM (#19467831)
I'm guessing the 12" MacBook isn't getting updated until they get macOS on ARM.

Because as a 12" MB user who'd like some 2019 performance, I can't think of any other good reason.

Re:The New iPad Mini by chipotle_coyote on Saturday March 23, 2019 @04:12AM (#19469549)
That might be. I can't hazard any other good guesses, other than perhaps they really didn't expect to keep the Air around and now their original plans for the MacBook are in some disarray.
Re:The New iPad Mini by oflannabhra on Saturday March 23, 2019 @09:07AM (#19470286)
I see the “What about Steve” comment get posted every time there is a complaint about Apple’s lineup. The strongest rebuttal to this is the iPod line [0], circa 2005 or 2008. Apple has 5-6 full-size models and 5 models of smaller iPods.

Apple has always expanded their lineups to reach the maximum possible market, going both down and up for price points.

I also think you have how customers buy products totally backwards. Apple makes products for a price point and margin. Everything works back from that. Large differentiators are size and power. No one first thinks “I want 128 GB of storage, what are my options.”

That’s not to say that Apple’s current lineup doesn’t have issues, or that there is no confusion amongst models. You correctly point out several of those.

I’d say much of the current confusion in the line has to do with maintaining price points and preparing for ARM in the coming years.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Classic#Timeline_of_full-...

Re:The New iPad Mini by yoz-y on Friday March 22, 2019 @06:23PM (#19467546)
I think that the iPad lineup is pretty okay currently. You have the iPad which is the cheapest, Air is lighter and Mini is smaller. They all use lightning and support the Pecil 1. Pro hardware has USB-C, faceid and supports Pencil 2. None of them has 3D touch.

Mac lineup tho... makes less sense.

Re:The New iPad Mini by durability on Saturday March 23, 2019 @04:48AM (#19469643)
I think it’s more like there are three tiers:

There is the budget tier with the 2018 regular “iPad.” It uses old hardware but is otherwise relatively cheap and capable.

Next step higher are the iPad Air and iPad Mini. They use current generation hardware and support all the same things the regular iPad does. Pick the Mini for something smaller, or the Air for a regular sized iPad. Bonus with the Air is that it can be used with a Smart Keyboard, so if you wanted an iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard combo before but couldn’t justify the $1000+ price tag then now’s your chance to get in with something a bit cheaper.

At the top end there is the iPad Pro in two sizes. They don’t have TouchID, have FaceID, and support Pencil 2 and USB-C. The non-Pros all support Pencil 1 and Lightning.

Re:The New iPad Mini by erikpukinskis on Saturday March 23, 2019 @07:13PM (#19472859)
I'm so glad 3d touch isn't on every device. It's such a bad technology. Touching should be simple and understandable. 3D touch just feels like random events are happening for no reason. Between long press, tap, and drag there is already plenty of complexity there. 3D touch takes it too far.

But because Apple didn't standardize on it, it will hopefully never get wide adoption.

That said, I'd it does eventually seep into Apple's low end, that will just make it easier for the company that takes a usability-first approach to designing a mobile OS, when they come to eat Apple's lunch.

I think that's a huge opportunity for whoever builds up enough gumption to think a new mobile OS startup is worth trying.

Re:The New iPad Mini by BRAlNlAC on Sunday March 24, 2019 @08:07PM (#19479474)
I love 3D Touch, it makes user interfaces better by far. I think calling it a bad technology is completely baseless. I know multiple people who won't upgrade their iPad until they get 3D Touch. Peeking/popping links in a browser is the best UI upgrade to mobile web since scrolling with momentum.

>3D touch just feels like random events are happening for no reason.

I completely disagree, random events is what you get "Between long press, tap, and drag"--3D Touch gives you a similar semblance of control over your smartphone that you'd expect from other HIDs like a mouse. Maybe it's an age thing though, I'm in my 20s, and haven't been able to get my parents to adopt 3D Touch features.

Re:The New iPad Mini by yoz-y on Sunday March 24, 2019 @03:28AM (#19474952)
I think 3d touch has problems but they are all tied to software. I find it extremely useful for keyboard cursor. It requires some finesse but the 3d touch version (as opposed to the long press available on iPad and iPhone XR) is more useful as it can do selection by changing pressure. It is not very accessible as it requires some finesse though.

Another feature I use all the time is 3d touch on apps which have quick shortcuts.

Where I agree is that there is too much of a fine line drawn between long press, drag and 3d touch and it is far from easy to be able to activate the desired one 100% of the time.

Re:The New iPad Mini by erikpukinskis on Sunday March 24, 2019 @03:49PM (#19478383)
The fact that you use it all the time doesn't mean it's good design. Often it takes time to find solutions which allow the same benefits without increasing complexity.

3D touch is a the equivalent of "just add more buttons". Sure, people will use the buttons. Doesn't mean it was the best design.

Re:The New iPad Mini by rorykoehler on Friday March 22, 2019 @10:30PM (#19468684)
Is the air lighter? Why is it lighter? Does that mean it is missing features? Makes zero sense to me.
Re:The New iPad Mini by yoz-y on Saturday March 23, 2019 @09:00AM (#19470266)
Much like sports cars, computers get more expensive when they get lighter. I don't actually know if Air is lighter per se, but it is thinner thanks to the laminated screen.

I think it is kind of similar for macbooks now, if there is a suffix, it means it is somehow better than the base model. (although macbook Air is larger than a macbook... which is weird)

Re:The New iPad Mini by rorykoehler on Saturday March 23, 2019 @09:45AM (#19470417)
I honestly only know that the pro is more powerful. I don't get the rest of the lineup. I don't get why the new air isn't a macbook (or vice versa) for example. They seem to occupy the same space. Added to that, imo, the macbook is the best industrial design of any laptop ever released and the air wedge shape the worst recent mac's but they decided to revive it for some reason. They should have just made a bigger macbook. Their product line up is a disjointed mess.
Re:The New iPad Mini by yoz-y on Saturday March 23, 2019 @10:14AM (#19470511)
I too think that on macs the air should be macbook and vice versa. However then it runs into the issue that classic macbooks have really slow processors whereas the air is faster. At least on the iPad side the Air comes only with benefits.
Re:The New iPad Mini by fumar on Friday March 22, 2019 @05:33PM (#19467190)
I do see your point on increased SKUs. I can't afford the pro line across the entire Apple suite. Using price alone, I am guided to the Air or non-pro products. I am sure some folks are only looking at the base core line. Again price is the guide here. As a consumer, I am not really looking at the iMac Pro, Macbook Pros, iPad Pros thus I don't feel the increase in segmentation.
Re:The New iPad Mini by ksec on Saturday March 23, 2019 @04:54AM (#19469656)
Well it is very clear now Apple wants the Air brand name to be Mid Range. So Pro > Air > Original ( MacBook / iPad ).

MacBook Pro > MacBook Air > Macbook

iPad Pro > iPad Air > iPad ( The Mini actually fits into the Mid Range )

It is similar on iPhone, where I expect Apple to drop the number from naming scheme and just go with

iPhone S > iPhone R > iPhone

Basically Apple is transition all of their product line into three different segment, each with different display size and prices. And I guess these transition will make a lot more sense once the 2019 and 2020 product are out.

Re:The New iPad Mini by m463 on Friday March 22, 2019 @07:04PM (#19467774)
An old macbook air screen died, so to upgrade to a new macbook air I needed a bunch of dongles and cables (expensive). (I believe usb-c to tb2 dongle + tb2 cable)

Upgrading an older machine required multiple nested dongles to get to firewire.