Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix

Re:Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' fr... by verytrivial on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @06:04AM (#19440544)

The Lion Air directive has instructions on page 41 of their preliminary report that include:

5. If the runaway continues after the autopilot is disengaged:

   STAB TRIM CUTOUT switches (both)  ... CUTOUT
   If the runaway continues:
      Stabilizer trim wheel  .... *Grasp and hold*

This may be an overabundance of caution, or to cover other runaway events, but it reads like "you may need to physically fight the computer even when it has been disabled". Not exactly heartening.

EDIT: A comment below points out haptic feedback to disengage as a reason to grab-and-hold.

https://reports.aviation-safety.net/2018/20181029-0_B38M_PK-...

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Re:Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' fr... by ProAm on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @11:47AM (#19443356)

> you may need to physically fight the computer

This is the future I look forward to. AI/ML/Autopilot/Companies moving fast and breaking things.... Boeing took that one literally.

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Re:Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' fr... by mlindner on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @06:34AM (#19440711)

That's incorrect, these have haptic feedback, once you grasp it, it's not going to fight you. It looks for resistance and if it sees the resistance it doesn't continue.

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Re:Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' fr... by userbinator on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @08:21AM (#19441324)

Really? Here's a video of someone doing it, and it certainly looks like it tries to fight you (and the trim motor continues running) but there's a clutch that starts slipping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQirIH_DuAs

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Re:Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' fr... by heavenlyblue on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @06:53AM (#19440822)

You are still fighting it, aren't you?

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Re:Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' fr... by verytrivial on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @06:50AM (#19440800)

Ah, Okay, thanks. What remaining automation would be driving the trim wheel in this case that grab-and-hold would countermand?

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Re:Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' fr... by cjbprime on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @12:22PM (#19443742)

I think it's definitely to cover other runaway events, e.g. mechanical failure. (And I don't think there's haptic feedback.)

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