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Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by jnty on Monday March 18, 2019 @06:32AM (#19419968)
No, a significant part of it (in the UK) has definitely been stereotypes around Chinese food being somehow 'dodgy'.

Clearly racism doesn't 'explain everything' and the forces you mention played a part, but you're the only one who brought up that strawman. (You should think carefully about why you're so desperate to disingenuously downplay the effects of racism on modern attitudes.)

Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by dang on Monday March 18, 2019 @02:25PM (#19423650)
Personal attacks are not ok on HN and we ban accounts that cross into that zone repeatedly. Can you please edit such bits out in the future? Your comment makes your point just fine without that last sentence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by thraway-burnout on Monday March 18, 2019 @06:48AM (#19420032)
Disclaimer: I'm married to a Chinese person, I speak (some) Chinese, I've been to China. I love Chinese food.

There's no racism in claiming that quite a lot of the "Chinese" food one finds available in Europe is indeed quite dodgy.

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Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by dang on Monday March 18, 2019 @02:22PM (#19423622)
Instead of taking the discussion straight to toxic tropes, how about assuming good faith, as the guidelines ask? Here's the full version:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

They also ask you not to snark, and not to post flamebait. (And personal attacks, which you unfortunately crossed into in this thread, are right out.)

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by oliwarner on Monday March 18, 2019 @07:25AM (#19420194)
People should be encouraged to disclose their background and expertise when they speak on subjects.

Especially when it highlights the difference between what people in the West refer to as "Chinese", and the food that people eat in China.

But why have a sensible conversation about things when we can just hop up and down when we think we've found something we think might offend somebody.

Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by thraway-burnout on Monday March 18, 2019 @06:58AM (#19420078)
Yeah, I'm actually a closet self-hating racist who built a family with someone I despise. Plus took the time to learn their culture, values, and language; and live my life accordingly.

What a bunch of nonsense...

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Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by Spooky23 on Monday March 18, 2019 @08:33AM (#19420507)
Sorry, but this is an intellectual lazy argument that undermines discourse.

Highlighting a close personal relationship like a marriage that spans cultures isn’t the same as the “some of my best friends are black” trope. It’s a useful context that implies a deeper understanding of differences between cultures and thinking.

I have nothing to add about restaurants, but I would illustrate this by my experience growing up in a traditional Irish Catholic family (2nd generation immigrants) and going to school with many first generation American born Chinese and Koreans. From my perspective, my classmates were cool and in alignment with the things that I cared about as an 80s kid, but at the same time reserved from an after school perspective.

As a grew older, I noticed some ways our families were similar, but the cultural differences were a big load on my friends. Many spoke no English at home and had to serve as universal translators for language and the cultural standards both ways. A few struggles with being an “outsider” in school and a decadent American in the eyes of extended family.

I bring this up because it’s easy to attribute to racism things that are better categorized as mutual misalignment of perspective and experience. Perhaps reflecting on how your implied characterization of the poster’s marriage would perhaps be hurtful or interpreted in a negative way would be a productive exercise.

Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by coldtea on Monday March 18, 2019 @07:47AM (#19420295)
The only reason the argument is somehow suspect, is because people can't say anything about a group of people that's not considered racist by some "professionally offended on behalf of others".

Anything negative I mean. They might be OK with 100% praise (though even that has been accused of "idealizing" and other BS by the "professionally offended on behalf of others").

So people saying e.g. "I'm not racist against X, I have X friends, but statistically X cause most of Y (a bad thing)" are considered racist and their qualifier is seen as bogus or hypocritical.

Even if statistically, according to accepted official numbers, X indeed cause most of Y.

Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by jerf on Monday March 18, 2019 @09:30AM (#19420821)
We really need to put a cultural moratorium/ban on being offended on behalf of others.

I'm sure someone will pop up about how maybe the "others" are just too afraid to speak, but in practice I'm just not seeing that very often, but I am seeing a lot of people trying to basically culturally appropriate someone else's victimhood. And of course the people doing that are the most tedious and annoying spokespeople possible for whatever is being said.

Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by coldtea on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:36AM (#19421948)
What's worse is that most of these people do it for the because it's a fashion, harmless, gives you instant media credits.

In the days when it was most needed (in the segregation times, when gay and AIDS was a dirty word, etc) only people with balls supported those minorities, and those people could not care less about BS "politically correct" names and such.

Now, everybody and their dog support causes just because it's fashionable and scores them points.

Such opportunists are worse than active bigots -- if Nazi's where in fashion, they'd score points by being nazis.

Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by coldtea on Monday March 18, 2019 @07:42AM (#19420278)
Having friends or even being married to X is a good sign to prove one is not racist towards X.

The inverse idea, that this is somehow a bad argument, I can't even fathom how it started (and how messed the minds of those that think you must somehow be a racist if you make this argument are).

(Sure, one can claim it hypocritically, just like everything else -- that doesn't mean the claim itself signals racism).

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Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by jnty on Monday March 18, 2019 @09:57AM (#19421004)
He misrepresented the article. It does not claim that racism 'explains everything', merely that it was one of a number of factors which have led to the demonisation of MSG. That was a disingenous attempt to erase the effects of racism through ridicule.
Re:How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016) by Veen on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:52AM (#19422119)
The article provides no evidence that racism had anything to do with it. It links to a social history "study" which simply asserts it based on the existence of racism. It is disengenous to assume racism when there is no evidence of it being a causal factor.

Additionally, the implication in the comment I replied to was that the commentor must have hidden motivations, probably racist ones, for denying the influence of racism. That is a piece of obnoxious mind-reading that stifles reasonable dialogue.