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Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by cwkoss on Friday March 15, 2019 @02:37PM (#19402785)
The idea that technology will allow us to keep cows happy and healthy in cramped prison-like conditions seems like incredible hubris.

It seems like a much better solution to this 'problem' is let cows live outdoors and graze on grass.

FDA should mandate that all cows raised in confinement conditions get labeled as "prison beef'.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by vlan0 on Friday March 15, 2019 @02:53PM (#19402951)
>It seems like a much better solution to this 'problem' is let cows live outdoors and graze on grass.

With the number of cattle on this planet, this would require an insane amount of land.

>FDA should mandate that all cows raised in confinement conditions get labeled as "prison beef'.

I'm sure people would consume less if the simply put slaughter pictures on each piece of meat they buy. Rather than outsource the killing to a third party, which keeps people emotionally detached from the killing of billions of animals every year.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by NeedMoreTea on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:04PM (#19403060)
> this would require an insane amount of land

Which would constrain consumption, and cause prices to rise. Eventually we might end up at a sustainable amount. If that means most of us can't afford nearly as much, then that is probably great for our future and the planet.

> if the simply put slaughter pictures on each piece of meat they buy

Hmm. Sounds reasonable, except pictures alone didn't do that much to smoking rates. Pricing and eliminating marketing did.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by nightski on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:13PM (#19403148)
Except smoking is actively harmful to your body. Meat is much more controversial. Actually, it's not a controversy at all to many practitioners and doctors promoting a low carb lifestyle. There is a lot of scientific evidence to support eating meat of all kinds being incredibly healthy!

So comparing eating meat to smoking seems pretty ridiculous.

Also if you look at government reports on greenhouse gas emissions animal agriculture only accounts for < 3% of U.S. emissions. It's a factor for sure, but not worth our primary focus imho.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by mrpopo on Friday March 15, 2019 @09:13PM (#19405775)
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by NeedMoreTea on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:18PM (#19403208)
Except I am only comparing the effect dramatic pictures had on sales. (Not that much). I'm not equating the two in terms of health or legislation that should be brought forth. Implying I am seems pretty ridiculous. :p

Rising meat prices, for whatever reason, would tend to reduce consumption.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by nightski on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:21PM (#19403233)
It depends on the type of marketing those pictures were. Pictures used in anti-smoking campaigns were of the humans consuming them and the related health issues that ensued. They weren't of manufacturing cigarettes.

If you showed a bunch of in shape healthy people on low carb diets I'm not sure that would cause meat sales to decline.

If you mean slaughter, well maybe it would have an effect on sales, maybe it wouldn't. But it's not comparable to the anti-smoking ads.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by jniedrauer on Friday March 15, 2019 @06:40PM (#19404982)
Low carb is... maybe possible without meat, but it's very challenging. I'm actually in the middle of trying to figure out how to make it work myself.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by vlan0 on Friday March 15, 2019 @04:02PM (#19403667)
>Even though smoking is in the same category as processed meat (Group 1 carcinogen), the magnitude or level of risk associated with smoking is considerably higher (e.g., for lung cancer about 20 fold or 2000% increased risk) from those associated with processed meat – an analysis of data from 10 studies, cited in the IARC report showed an 18 percent increased risk in colorectal cancer per 50g processed meat increase per day. To put this in perspective, according to the Global Disease Burden Project 2012, over 34,000 cancer deaths per year worldwide are attributable to high processed meat intake vs. 1 million deaths per year attributable to tobacco smoke.[1][2]

It's not as cut and try and you may think.

[1]https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/11/03/repo... [2]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2...

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by notduncansmith on Friday March 15, 2019 @04:29PM (#19403981)
Off-topic but I believe you meant "cut and dried" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cut-and-dried).
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by vlan0 on Friday March 15, 2019 @10:56PM (#19406128)
Hah, yes! It seems my brain stopped working today.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by tomatotomato37 on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:17PM (#19403195)
Not to disparage the environmental argument, but for a movement in which a majority of its members also lean socialist I see a lot of arguments that in practice boil down to "Only the 1% should be able to enjoy meat/own personal transport/fly on vacation/etc."

I mean, I don't care if you aim for either "Luxury for all" or "Luxury isn't sustainable" but at least be consistent.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by retsibsi on Friday March 15, 2019 @10:14PM (#19405982)
Where's the inconsistency? Presumably the socialist environmentalists you refer to want both reduced consumption of products that harm the environment and a massive decrease in inequality. So they don't want 'only the 1%' to be able to afford those things; they want everyone to be able to afford to use them very sparingly.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by NeedMoreTea on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:23PM (#19403255)
Well the only alternative route to reducing consumption, if you don't want it via pricing is legislation bringing forth rationing, or outlawing marketing. I'd imagine both those would be more difficult.

It pretty clearly isn't sustainable. So what would you do?

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by clarkmoody on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:45PM (#19403476)
We can start by eliminating agricultural subsidies and import tariffs, so that market pricing can work to allocate resources to their best use.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by tomatotomato37 on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:43PM (#19403462)
I'm of the opinion that trying to politically solve any humanitarian issue while the socialeconomic situation is still a clusterfuck would only result in yellow vests burning down your capital while a Trump expy gets elected. Better start investing into sea walls and squirreling away endangered species DNA because it's going be years before we untangle this clusterfuck enough to start slowing the train down
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by pantalaimon on Friday March 15, 2019 @10:30PM (#19406042)
> I'm sure people would consume less if the simply put slaughter pictures on each piece of meat they buy.

To be honest the slaughtering didn't put me off as much as learning under which conditions those animals have to spend their lives. They should put pictures of that on the meat products, or show Dominion in schools.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by pvaldes on Sunday March 17, 2019 @07:35PM (#19417507)
> I'm sure people would consume less

Most probably such blatant attempt on "psychological manipulation for toddlers" would backfire loudly. Adult omnivorous people know yet how a skinned cow corpse looks, keep enjoying meat, and couldn't care less. Other people would slowly desensitize by the continuous exposure and could even increase the consumption.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by pantalaimon on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @05:56PM (#19506511)
It's not about how the animals look when they are dead. It's about what they have to endure while they are alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by MrZongle2 on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:32PM (#19404521)
I'm sure people would consume less if the simply put slaughter pictures on each piece of meat they buy.

Certainly if the picture of the cow itself were on the package, and a randomly-generated name printed below the photo.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by DonHopkins on Friday March 15, 2019 @06:46PM (#19405023)
Kill two birds with one stone: Put picture and names of missing children on packages of meat, and some people might think they were buying human flesh.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by mikepurvis on Friday March 15, 2019 @02:56PM (#19402991)
> "prison beef"

It's funny the dissonance of having the video cut between shots of the entrepreneur pitching the product while walking through an open green field, and shots of the cows in standing-room-only stalls.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by skrebbel on Saturday March 16, 2019 @01:32AM (#19406509)
You have never been on a farm, have you? Like people, the cows go outside and back into the stalls.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by Falling3 on Saturday March 16, 2019 @11:14AM (#19408215)
That depends very much on the cow. Plenty of animals never see the light of day until their trip to the slaughterhouse.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by skrebbel on Saturday March 16, 2019 @04:19PM (#19410016)
The cows in this movie, Dutch dairy cows, get out each day except in winter.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by evolve2k on Friday March 15, 2019 @02:56PM (#19402986)
When I visited a friends dairy farm in New Zealand that was not my experience. In conventional farming the cows do live outdoors and are free to graze in large paddocks. Twice a day though the cows are full of milk and will be in pain if not milked. The cows are milked in the dairy twice a day and this is where this innovation applies. When out and about they go wherever, when in the dairy though the urine mixing with the poo seems to be an environmental problem.

A conventional dairy farm does not confine the animals it just collects their milk each day and the cows know the routine.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by cdf2theworld on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:20PM (#19403229)
Ah but this is the seeing point of New Zealand: they have a low population of people, and a lot of open grazing land. Heck there are more sheep than people there! That is a no go in the US.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by evolve2k on Friday March 15, 2019 @05:54PM (#19404674)
You raise an important point alot of our food issues come from abstraction and seeing the products not as having coming from a living thing but rather as a commodity.

We loose track of the implementation details of how the food is sourced.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by cwkoss on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:00PM (#19403021)
I understand there are good reasons to put happy cows in confined spaces for limited periods of time. If this was just a collection apparatus, I wouldn't be so horrified. But electric stimulation of the nerve to induce urination seems messed up.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by rebuilder on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:22PM (#19403247)
Is it electric stimulation? From the video it seems touch is sufficient.
Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by reaperducer on Friday March 15, 2019 @04:07PM (#19403723)
It seems like a much better solution to this 'problem' is let cows live outdoors and graze on grass.

People raise cattle in Alaska.

Re:CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows by makerofspoons on Friday March 15, 2019 @03:13PM (#19403141)
A much better solution is to introduce products to the market that make cows an unnecessary part of the process, such as lab grown meats and meat substitutes.