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Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by skybrian on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @04:11PM (#19383232)
Well, saying it's ridiculous isn't an argument.

it's expensive and maybe non-viable for many websites. But it's not like all websites need to exist? There was a world wide web before cookies.

Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by duxup on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @04:14PM (#19383260)
>There was a world wide web before cookies.

I like to think of that time as a great time too, but oh man so much we couldn't do.... I get what you're saying generally, but man I'd hate "before cookies" to be the standard.

Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by Jach on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @04:44PM (#19383539)
The big use of cookies for re-authentication and carrying around a session id enabled clean URLs lacking your session id as a query param, but it wouldn't be that big of a deal to lose it. You'd need to be careful with copy-pasting URLs -- but given browsers standardized on cookies they could have standardized on a sessionId param name to filter out of copy-pastes or not even display it at all similar to Chrome's proposal to not display the protocol, just a "secure" flag or not. A similar "session context established" flag could have been made. And in the age of password managers and/or having your browser remember your login, it wouldn't be that much of a loss to require logging in to everything again every time you restart your browser... maybe more of a pain with 2FA.

I don't really see it as "what we couldn't do" but "what poor usability we have overcome". I'm glad we have cookies and other forms of local storage, especially for the latter there are many other benefits. Maybe one day we'll get Web SQL.

In the meantime people can still disable cookies entirely, or at least delete them when they close the browser, both with out of the box browser settings (and I have no idea what extensions are available to do even more) and return to that less-usable (if slightly more private) experience. The crucial idea of a "user agent" is I think the biggest mindset change the web brought, it's important to keep that even if on the dev side we constantly complain about being asked to support more than one configuration of anything.

Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by duxup on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @04:58PM (#19383694)
>I don't really see it as "what we couldn't do" but "what poor usability we have overcome". I'm glad we have cookies and other forms of local storage, especially for the latter there are many other benefits. Maybe one day we'll get Web SQL.

Yeah I think that's accurate.

It's a little weird sometimes reading all these articles about cookies, JavaScript, etc and I always think "But I use those things to ... give people things, convenience, data, help them do things." But so many times it's not treated as a tool, it's almost implied to be a negative thing.

Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by mikeash on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @05:31PM (#19384069)
90% of web developers give the rest of you a bad name.
Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by duxup on Thursday March 14, 2019 @01:47PM (#19391593)
I really wonder if it is more 90% of really visible things give a bad name.

Most just do stuff nobody sees at any volume.

Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by mikeash on Thursday March 14, 2019 @03:25PM (#19392632)
That’s a good point. One bad web developer at, say, Facebook cancels out millions of people working on less visible stuff.
Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by rhizome on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:04PM (#19385925)
give people things, convenience, data, help them do things

Have you ever reviewed how little you need in order to do all those things, outside of third-party dependencies? Any second guesses at all?

Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by duxup on Thursday March 14, 2019 @07:54AM (#19388369)
I don't know what you mean exactly.
Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by kansface on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @05:13PM (#19383867)
This will work until the EU in decides you must ask the user permission before you can change the query string. Technology was not the cause of this problem and it won't be the solution.
Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by cortesoft on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @05:20PM (#19383946)
The WWW before cookies was pretty limited, and didn't last long. I mean, the first web browser was released in 1990, and cookies were introduced in 1995.

We didn't have e-commerce before cookies.

Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by rkeene2 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @05:36PM (#19384117)
There was e-commerce before cookies.

The same functionality of correlating multiple requests for a single request (building sessions upon packets) was just more difficult to use by encoding the session ID as a parameter in query string for each request. Many frameworks still support this mode.

Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by cortesoft on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @05:54PM (#19384281)
Cookies pre-date SSL, so how were they securing that e-commerce that existed before cookies?
Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by roel_v on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:30PM (#19386310)
Nobody cared. I submitted CC numbers over http connections for years in the late 1990's. I emailed them sometimes, too. I also used telnet across the public internet and never got my passwords sniffed or mitm'd (only on hacker meetups where I would lure people into honeypots by doing fake telnet sessions :) )
Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by yc12340 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:33PM (#19386066)
By using secure networks? PPP is older than SSL and have been in widespread use for longer time.

SSL is largely irrelevant to banking security anyway. Actual security is built upon charge-back system. The underlying security model was designed when everyone trusted written checks.

Re:Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop by white-flame on Thursday March 14, 2019 @12:40AM (#19386566)
Does placing an order on a website, then sending a check in the mail still count as e-commerce?