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Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by JulianMorrison on Friday March 08, 2019 @07:37PM (#19343638)
Why would they do day trips when they plan to do suborbital passenger trips. Not make going into space a bucket list item for the upper middle class, but a routine A-to-B for business class flyers.

The bucket list item would be Mars.

Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by ChuckMcM on Friday March 08, 2019 @07:58PM (#19343762)
I would assume free cash flow would be the reason. Let's assume that you could get $20M per seat on a 7 seat dragon with 2 of those seats going to crew and the other 5 going to paying passengers. You, launch them on a re-usable F9 which you currently charge $80M for a non-reusable booster flight into low orbit. Could you clear 25 - 35 million in margin on that? Could you do that for doing "nothing" special other than having the gear ready? Clearly we'd need way more visibility into their operational costs but if you could generate 250 - 300M$ per year that was not from fixed price contracts I think that would be a helpful thing from a money management perspective.

They still might not do it, but I don't think the sub-orbital passenger trips are very close. So many "other people" have to get involved before that is real, like treaties with the world about how you regulate overflights, or tariffs, or do air traffic control, or who pays when your rocket augurs into the innocent village, Etc. There are lots of details there, whereas Roscosmos has already done tourist flights to the ISS, and with their own launch facilities most of the variables would be under SpaceX's ability to control.

Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by ShorsHammer on Saturday March 09, 2019 @01:16AM (#19344783)
> 2 of those seats going to crew

Why exactly do you need crew taking up nearly 30% of the seats on a vessel that can provably operate without them?

Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by B1FF_PSUVM on Saturday March 09, 2019 @05:14AM (#19345455)
Keep order, etc.
Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by Robotbeat on Friday March 08, 2019 @08:31PM (#19343898)
You wouldn't use Dragon, you'd use BFR/Starship: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqE-ultsWt0
Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by neuronexmachina on Friday March 08, 2019 @08:09PM (#19343800)
SpaceX actually showed a mock-up of what point-to-point travel might look like in one of their videos.
Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by politician on Friday March 08, 2019 @09:55PM (#19344162)
The vomit-comet ICBM video? I'm a big fan of SpaceX, but I think they'll get to Mars before governments on Earth allow that concept to happen.

Your passengers do multiple g's to altitude, then go weightless, then go back to taking g-forces on descent. That's the vomit part. Not a great customer experience.

Meanwhile, the Starship looks like an ICBM to every early warning radar on the planet. It's only during reentry that it stops looking like an ICBM, but most missile defense strategies call for intervention in the boost phase.

Let's suppose that they address those false positive detection issues. If you're a military planner, though, you're probably asking yourself how many MIRV warheads could fit inside a militarized Starship retrofitted for a preemptive strike?

Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by politician on Friday March 08, 2019 @11:30PM (#19344461)
Ok, I did some rough math. The W88 has a diameter of 55cm, a length of 175cm, and a blast yield of 475 kilotons. The unpressurized cargo hold of the Starship per Wikipedia is 88m^3, and the diameter of the vehicle is 9m. Let's assume that the unpressurized cargo hold is a cylinder 9m in diameter with a length of 9m.

It looks like a hold of that size could fit 15 units per 200cm length, or 60 units, with space for structural rails and deployment gear. For comparison, that's 7.5x the capacity of the Trident II SLBM which was designed to accommodate 8 W88s.

In terms of potential, one W88 detonated in an airburst would produce a fireball over 1.56 sq km, an air blast to 5psi overpressure over 91.9 sq km, and 3rd degree burns over 233 sq km.

The scale of the human tragedy involved in a first-strike deployment of 60 of these things is too gruesome to write down here, but you can play with it on NukeMap [1] if you're so inclined. Suffice it to say that no sane government on the planet will want Starship to land anywhere nearby unless we're living in a global utopia where this sort of thing is unthinkable.

[1] https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by wbl on Saturday March 09, 2019 @01:56AM (#19344887)
Or they have ability to strike back no matter what.
Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by politician on Sunday March 10, 2019 @04:56PM (#19354438)
Maybe, but if governments of the world decide to treat every Starship launch as a potential ICBM, wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to just deny landing rights entirely?

A sky full of friendly traffic makes the hostile traffic more difficult to spot, after all.

Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by JulianMorrison on Sunday March 10, 2019 @03:17PM (#19353767)
Isn't the same math applicable to a jumbo jet? Or a container ship?
Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by politician on Sunday March 10, 2019 @04:47PM (#19354379)
Certainly, but neither a jumbo jet nor a container ship has a 30 minute delivery time, and presumably that many warheads has a significant radiation signature.
Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by rb666 on Saturday March 09, 2019 @02:40AM (#19344989)
Let's also not forget about the climate impact of turning rockets into business class travel. It's pretty ridiculous. If we want any change and chance for this planet we should squash initiatives like this in the butt.
Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by adrianN on Saturday March 09, 2019 @03:08AM (#19345057)
Fuel them with Hydrogen/Oxygen produced from electrolysis with solar power.
Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by avmich on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:33AM (#19346884)
Or with methane synthesized from CO2 taken from air. You're going to always have CO2 in air, plants need that, so a healthy loop of using it as an energy storage may eventually make sense, today's climate crisis notwithstanding.
Re:SpaceX Crew Dragon Splashes Down After Historic Test Flight by Robotbeat on Friday March 08, 2019 @08:31PM (#19343900)