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Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by AndrewKemendo on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:22PM (#19227076)
It's because there is no direct comparison.

No country on earth with single payer or other universal coverage has anywhere near the number of citizens nor geographic or social diversity as the US.

Now, that doesn't mean we can't learn from those countries, but our own smaller scale federal health care systems (medicare, VA, tricare) are already large enough to compare with and done so.

It's quite unfortunate, but the entire federal system has to change in order to lay the groundwork for a single payer system.

Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by dragonwriter on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:33PM (#19227190)
> No country on earth with single payer or other universal coverage has anywhere near the number of citizens nor geographic or social diversity as the US.

That's both not true (the PRC exists, and alone is sufficient to disprove that no country with universal coverage exceeds the US on any of the measures you listed) and not relevant, as none of those are significant per-capita or per-GDP healthcare cost drivers.

Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by AndrewKemendo on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:50PM (#19227365)
I'm sorry, just to be clear, you're making a serious contention that the PRC 1. Has universal healthcare (false) and 2. that it's something that is to be imitated?
Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by dragonwriter on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:04PM (#19228094)
> you're making a serious contention that the PRC 1. Has universal healthcare (false)

The PRC has universal healthcare coverage entitlement by national policy, financed and administered largely by local governments under national standards (with central subsidies to poorer regions), and has over 95% of the population covered through public-funded programs. [0]

> 2. that it's something that is to be imitated?

The claim was no country with certain features exists; being worthy of imitation was not one of the features.

I never advocated emulating the PRC either in general or in the specifics of their mechanism of addressing universal healthcare access; in fact, I specifically pointed out that, as well.as being false, the claim about countries sharing those features was irrelevant to the healthcare discussion (which implies that a country meeting the supposedly unmet description has no particular reason to have special status as a model for the US.)

[0] https://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/china/

Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by AndrewKemendo on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:56PM (#19228572)
I'm familiar with the "claim" they stake, however the actual system has effectively nothing resembling a functional national system like the "OECD First World" systems that the US is being compared to.

That's saying nothing of its outcomes or service level by the way. Simply in reference to its structure.

It's not even in the same ballpark.

Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by AlexandrB on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:34PM (#19228377)
> No country on earth with single payer or other universal coverage has anywhere near the number of citizens nor geographic or social diversity as the US.

This argument is so bizarre. Larger population sounds like better economies of scale to me. And social diversity? I mean we're talking about Homo Sapiens here. A kidney is a kidney is a kidney, no matter your cultural background.

Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by AndrewKemendo on Friday February 22, 2019 @03:01PM (#19228617)
Unfortunately those factors are relevant, as cultural and lifestyle and wealth differences make big differences in health outcomes.

Healthcare also hasn't shown that it can scale or that margins increase with more centralized services, while maintaining service levels. Said another way: doctors (the bottleneck for service) are expensive to grow, take a long time to make, in high demand, and work serially (no parallel service provided).

It's a structural problem, not just a policy one.

Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by objektif on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:31PM (#19227167)
I think this diversity can be benefitial for insurance right? Isnt that the whole idea behind the idea of diversification?
Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by benj111 on Friday February 22, 2019 @01:07PM (#19227525)
"No country on earth with single payer or other universal coverage has anywhere near the number of citizens nor geographic or social diversity as the US"

Why is this relevant?

The UK for example has a population of 60+ million (v US's 300+ million), if that figure doubled or halved, I don't think that would fundamentally change how the NHS operates. Just like it doesn't fundamentally change how it operates in central London or the Scottish highlands.

Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by Amygaz on Friday February 22, 2019 @01:24PM (#19227702)
Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by AndrewKemendo on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:48PM (#19228493)
Note that the AND operator in my statement isn't an OR operator
Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by moorhosj on Friday February 22, 2019 @03:09PM (#19228680)
Semantics aside, you haven’t established that those are primary drivers of cost or effectiveness. France and UK have 10x the population of Norway and are considerably more diverse. Can you prove where this impacts their respective costs?
Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by AndrewKemendo on Friday February 22, 2019 @05:27PM (#19229720)
I'm not making any specific claims about either of those aspects, simply that you can't compare two populations that are incredibly different in this manner.
Re:Build Your Own ‘Medicare for All’ Plan. Beware: There Are... by moorhosj on Saturday February 23, 2019 @08:25AM (#19233229)
You haven’t shown any supporting evidence of why you can’t compare them. Universal healthcare has shown to scale from Norway, Sweden, Denmark size to Spain, Italy, Canada, Australia size to UK, France, Germany size. What is the evidence it can’t scale to US size?