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Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by rekshaw on Thursday February 21, 2019 @07:23AM (#19216312)
A recent executive mandate declared the company a “meat-free” organization. When I interviewed McKelvey not long after the Summit, he had a very fuzzy time trying to explain the meaning of the “eight pillars” of its CultureOS and the relationships among them. But when he noticed that the P.R. representative happened to be carrying a single-use plastic water bottle, he admonished her to be mindful of her own consumption.

Wow.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by BucketSort on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:16AM (#19216621)
When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? Although I'm 29, I still remember a time where there was at least the pretense of civility. Civility was the oil that kept this machine running smoothly, now it's sputtering left and right. We don't even use formal names like Mr./Ms. as much as we once did, if at all. I felt that was an important part of creating a barrier of civil respect, distinguishing personal relationships from civil relationships. We threw a lot of cultural things away that were actually pretty damn important.

Edit: Also, my karma is now a binary number. Please don't up vote.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by farisjarrah on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:33AM (#19217977)
I think that this is a bit of a fallacy, ever so slightly akin to the ideology behind "Make America Great Again". When was this fabled time where everyone was civil to each other? Does the popular usage of Mr./Mrs. really mean we are being civil? People may have called each other Mr. and Mrs. in the 50's but many people were also extremely judgemental based on religious choices, many people were racist, sexist, etc etc.... I am not really buying this argument. People have always been civil and people have always been bad to each other. One really need to just judge peoples emotional maturity on a case by case basis.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by pjc50 on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:27AM (#19216671)
> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices?

It always has been, surely? But for a different set of things than mere consumer choice.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by dsr_ on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:34AM (#19216728)
People used to be polite to each other as long as they were the right people, but being polite to the wrong people became a sin called "political correctness".
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by astura on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:36AM (#19218014)
It's really ok and not at all "disrespectful" for a company's chief culture officer/cofounder to remind a company PR Rep (and subordinate) to be mindful to display company ethos while at work. She's a PR Rep, her job is literately to represent the company.

When did we become so self centered that we think we can behave however we please while at work under the guise of "it's just a personal choice, man" and any reprimanding of not following company policies is automatically considered "disrespectful?"

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by peteretep on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:28AM (#19216683)
> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices?

When people started having personal choices that affected the people around them. So: since always.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by notacoward on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:42AM (#19216778)
I think you're answering a different question than was asked. When did it become acceptable to politely suggest a different personal choice? Since always, as you say. When did it become acceptable to disrespect them for a personal choice? Pretty recently, and should have been never. That includes the personal choice to rationalize that kind of condescending priggishness online. What kind of person gets their jollies that way? Those who live by the sword, and all that. Maybe it would be better if we could all express the same ideas in more respectful and collaborative ways, at least to start with.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by geofft on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:46AM (#19216792)
The article doesn't have enough detail to conclude whether "admonished" meant politely or with disrespect.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by notacoward on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:53AM (#19216836)
Exactly. The article didn't mention disrespect, but BucketSort did. Two different questions. When peteretep replied to one with an answer only applicable to the other, it seemed worth pointing out.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by BucketSort on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:17AM (#19217847)
It's absolutely disrespectful to "admonish" someone in a meeting like this. I mean, it is basically saying "you are making shitty choices." If you were a friend, that's another matter. I'm still trying to back the idea that there should be a civil barrier of respect that is not crossed in formal dealings. If someone is dealing with you in a capacity that their job demands, you should treat them as a person in that capacity. They don't necessarily want to be there, they must be. The last thing you want is for people to get personal. I'm obviously not just talking about this situation, but the way we conduct ourselves in general. It makes navigating society much easier when people respect these boundaries.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by burger_moon on Thursday February 21, 2019 @10:35AM (#19217523)
In what situation would you walk up to a stranger and tell them to be mindful of themselves for carrying a plastic water bottle and it's not disrespectful. Mind your own business maybe?
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by mithr on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:10AM (#19217773)
> In what situation would you walk up to a stranger

Walking up to a stranger is one thing, but that really wasn't the case here... in this case, a comment was made to company-appointed P.R. representative who was present at a meeting with a journalist who was there to write about the company, its values, and its culture. I think the founder of the company commenting on the same company's P.R. person not adhering to the company's values is very much him "minding his own business".

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by geofft on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:34AM (#19217988)
When the stranger works for you and you literally own the business and part of the business's PR strategy is environmentalism and the stranger's job is PR and they're talking to s reporter, I would say it's your business and this is appropriate minding.
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Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by notacoward on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:10AM (#19216941)
> Not all personal choices warrant civility

True in some cases, but would you seriously put a single-use bottle into that category? The harm from that, while undeniably real, doesn't seem immediate or severe enough to justify jumping past civility to disrespect. You made a statement that disrespect is generally acceptable, and I disagree. While there are exceptions, disrespect should generally be avoided. To make the point even more bluntly, I think normalizing disrespect makes assholes of us all.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by peteretep on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:33AM (#19217087)
I don’t believe that incivility and disrespect are synonyms. It’s possible to rob someone blind in a civilised way, and equally to bluntly do someone a good turn.

You’re jumping backwards and forwards between the specific and the general here, but yes, I think it’s appropriate to admonish a PR person who knows there’s a journalist around for being off brand because _that’s literally their job_.

To speak to “it makes assholes of all of us”, appeals to civility and politeness have a long and sordid history of being used to oppress people, cf tone policing.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by notacoward on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:53AM (#19217223)
> appeals to civility and politeness have a long and sordid history

So does rejection of civility and politeness. Those who would marginalize or oppress others always start by placing them outside the sphere of social conventions, then complain about "political correctness" and "tone policing" when they're called on their behavior toward anyone not of their own tribe.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by peteretep on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:07PM (#19223044)
> then complain about "political correctness" and "tone policing"

I suspect the set of people who've complained about both political correctness _and_ tone policing is precisely zero.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by scottlegrand2 on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:51AM (#19217207)
May I suggest listening to "National Brotherhood Week" by Tom Lehrer?

https://youtu.be/aIlJ8ZCs4jY

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by kazagistar on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:31AM (#19217966)
Pollution is a personal choice? Maybe people figured out that "personal choice" wad being used as a shield to freely destroy and exploit commons.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by BucketSort on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:20AM (#19217871)
Hmm, it seems we need to have some discussions about civility in this country. It seems like people have become confused about its role and why its important. I guess it's easy to lose sight of that when the President goes around calling people childish nicknames.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by eeZah7Ux on Thursday February 21, 2019 @10:38AM (#19217549)
> disrespect

What disrespect? Where was that?

A whole comment thread developed without anybody questioning the alleged "disrespect"...

[dead]
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by BucketSort on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:47AM (#19216800)
Those were not civil actions for civilly minded people. Of course, people loathe each other behind closed doors and the less respectable people bring it out in public. Let me ask you this, would such an interaction as described in the OP comment happen in Japan? They seem to understand the importance of respect.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by brazzledazzle on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:01AM (#19216888)
Some of that’s politeness, face and collective harmony though. You can be disrespected politely.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by BucketSort on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:04AM (#19216897)
The idea is that there's a time and a place. If you are interviewing someone, you are there for an interview. It isn't a personal interaction. You are there to do a job. Why transform it from a formal engagement to a personal matter? We should respect the civil barrier.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by peterwwillis on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:44AM (#19217160)
Based on who's interpretation?

Civil actions by civilly-minded people has ranged throughout history, from the early alliances of warring Greek states, to the dogmatic ethics of religion, to the Enlightenment's person-centered morality and identity.

As you're familiar with Japan, you must know how in WWII the American population was shocked into supporting the war by stories of Japanese 'savages' cutting off heads of their victims - even though the Guillotine and hanging was seen as the more 'civil' form of execution by Westerners for centuries before. Today, if you use a cell phone on a train in Japan, literally everyone around you will leap towards you to scold you for using your phone - good luck getting that reaction in NYC.

Civility is nuanced and multifaceted, and it's hard to tell at any given time what all people consider 'civil'. My main point was, to that guy lecturing about bottled water, he probably thought he was being very civil.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by Aeolun on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:26AM (#19217923)
> Today, if you use a cell phone on a train in Japan, literally everyone around you will leap towards you to scold you for using your phone

Use your cell phone to call, that is. Using your phone for anything else is perfectly fine.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by TheOtherHobbes on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:10AM (#19216940)
"Seem to"

Japan has nasty edges, just like every other country.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by Aeolun on Thursday February 21, 2019 @11:23AM (#19217893)
They’ve also gotten very adept at showing disrespect without seeming to.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by dragonwriter on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:32AM (#19216709)
> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices?

That time is lost in the mists of history, though which choices this is acceptable for have been different in different times and places.

Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by BucketSort on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:56AM (#19216859)
Yeah, I guess I should have said "mainstream personal choices." If one does something deviant, politeness has typically always gone out the window. These days people pick fights just so they can put themselves in some virtuous light. It's really annoying.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by dragonwriter on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:43AM (#19217149)
No, these days behaviors which you remember being unquestionably mainstream are now on the disputed boundary where some substantial number of people see them as deviant.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by pjc50 on Thursday February 21, 2019 @09:36AM (#19217115)
These are defined the other way round: "mainstream" is the set of things people accept, and "deviant" is what they call things they don't.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by notacoward on Thursday February 21, 2019 @10:03AM (#19217287)
A peer comment to yours nicely illustrates the point. Everyone wants to appropriate "mainstream" for themselves, even as they also want to be recognized as the vanguard of whatever movement they are (transiently) promoting.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by lr4444lr on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:05AM (#19216549)
I don't envy the psychotherapists that have a professional mandate to show empathy to people like this.
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by stickfigure on Thursday February 21, 2019 @10:30AM (#19217491)
Does this mean you cannot bring meat into the kitchen, or just that they've found a socially acceptable way of keeping provided food costs down?
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by quux on Monday February 25, 2019 @02:58PM (#19248848)
Members and employees can bring whatever kind of food they like into the space, but no WeWork funds can be spent on meat (fish is ok)
Re:The Rise of the WeWorking Class by dalbasal on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:12AM (#19216597)
Puts religion into context, human/anthropology/history-wise.