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Re:China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Main... by oblio on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @05:57AM (#19198081)
There were, up to a point. France and the UK carved up several continents without much tension, after 1850 or so.

Provided that China becomes less authoritarian and the US doesn't do something stupid, it's not impossible for both to coexist, while still competing.

Re:China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Main... by NeedMoreTea on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:15AM (#19199972)
It took a thousand years for Franco-British relations to settle to peaceful tolerance, then the Entente Cordiale. I can't, for example, imagine calls for a China-US union like Franco-British Union was seriously suggested twice in the 20th century.

The second time might have been interesting for world history, as the French PM proposed it before France decided to join the Treaty of Rome nations to bootstrap the EU.

Re:China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Main... by geowwy on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:38PM (#19205540)
The US doesn't care about authoritarianism. They're friendly with plenty of authoritarian states. The issue is that China is pursuing an independent foreign policy instead of following America's lead.
Re:China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Main... by sonnyblarney on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @08:54PM (#19213883)
"The issue is that China is pursuing an independent foreign policy instead of following America's lead."

The issue is mostly China grabbing international waters like the S. China Sea as sovereign territory, grabbing Taiwan, pressuring Japan and neighbouring states, and building what will eventually be a string of military bases throughout East and South Asian oceans.

The US, in comparison, makes sure that everyone - including adversaries like China, Russia and Iran - can navigate the Suez, the Panama Canal, Red Sea, Arab/Persian Gulf, S. China Sea, Straits of Taiwan etc.

There would be zero problems, and US Navy presence in Asia would be minimal if China wasn't trying to hustle this outside it's borders.

And FYI Americans do care about authoritarianism, and there is constant pressure on places like Saudi to reform (and FYI there are steady reforms), though yes, it's very secondary.

The paradox is that China is pursuing a macho 'we're the local king' strategy much like Russia, when for it's own benefit, the military escapades are not fruitful. Maybe in China's case there are some advantages, though almost none in the case of Russia.

The new Belt-and-Road strategy is an example of a good project that will have immensely positive results for most players - shenanigans aside. Nobody is against any of this, we are all for it, except for the shifty things like debt-traps to grab ownerships of ports, which will eventually be Chinese navy bases.

China will continue to pursue the authoritarian entrapment of the citizens of HK and Macau, and of course Taiwan, which isn't good for anyone really.

Re:China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Main... by geowwy on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @10:17PM (#19214221)
>>> The US, in comparison, makes sure that everyone - including adversaries like China, Russia and Iran - can navigate the Suez, the Panama Canal, Red Sea, Arab/Persian Gulf, S. China Sea, Straits of Taiwan etc.

Right now they do. But if conflict breaks out between China and the US you can guarantee the US will use its navy to block all trade with China. This puts China in a very vulnerable position, which is why they're willing to risk upsetting neighbours by aggressively pursuing bases in the South China Sea (as well as the Belt and Road project).

>>> There would be zero problems, and US Navy presence in Asia would be minimal if China wasn't trying to hustle this outside it's borders.

Why do you think that?

>>> China will continue to pursue the authoritarian entrapment of the citizens of HK and Macau, and of course Taiwan, which isn't good for anyone really.

My wife is Taiwanese so I understand the situation pretty well. I just think it's a mistake to put this down to ideology or democracy versus authorianism. It's just two states vying for power, the same thing that's been going since forever.

Re:China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Main... by ende on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:08AM (#19199909)
It’s also not that impossible to imagine both being peer stakeholders in a renewed liberal trade order, ala US + EU.
Re:China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Main... by riffraff on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @11:46AM (#19200288)
And yet the US/EU relationship is at an all time low.
Re:China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Main... by killyp on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @02:47PM (#19202117)
I would say that this depends on your perspective. While Trump likes to talk bad about the EU, NATO and FVEY members, our military, intelligence and economic cooperation is still VERY strong. And I see no indication of this changing, outside of the rhetoric coming out of the White House. Our Allies know that pulling out of Syria via Twitter was not a decision that came from the Pentagon.
Re:China Unveils Plan to Tie Hong Kong, Macau Closer to Main... by therealforsen on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @05:19PM (#19203447)
Why would China become less authoritarian? They can continue to grow and gain power without doing so.