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Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by nathan_f77 on Saturday February 16, 2019 @04:54PM (#19181175)
Some possible solutions:

1) Ask for a 30 hour work week, or find a company that can offer this. Your salary should still be high enough to aim for a comfortable retirement at 65.

2) Adopt a more frugal lifestyle and increase your savings rate.

You need to save a few million dollars to retire with $40-$80k in investment income. It should be very possible to do this with a backend developer's salary over a period of 10-15 years, and then you should be able to retire in your 30s or 40s. You should also aim to increase your salary by changing jobs every few years (or get a job at a FAANG.)

3) Build side projects or a startup and try to get some passive income (or an exit)

Write all your startup ideas down and keep looking for opportunities. It can be hard to build products in the evenings or weekends, especially if you're already burnt out from your normal job. So this option works best when combined with part-time freelance work:

4) Become a freelancer and work part-time while you work on your own projects

Bonus: Move to a place with a very low cost of living.

Working 10-20 hours per week gives you a lot of free time and much longer weekends. But it also gives you a lot of time and energy to work on your own ideas.

Note that working 10 hours per week is a terrible idea if you just spend the rest of your time working on hobbies that don't make any money. If you do that, then you won't even be able to retire at 65, and you probably won't be able to save money for emergencies. Only do this if you spend the rest of your time trying to build a business.

If you can't get anything to work after ~10 years of trying, then you should still have plenty of time to go back to a full-time job and save for retirement.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Saturday February 16, 2019 @04:58PM (#19181191)
> You need to save a few million dollars to retire with $40-$80k in investment income.

You need a lot less than a few million dollars if you're willing to live at a more reasonable retirement income. I mean, you won't have to commute anymore, or buy all those services that did things you never had time for, or pay for daycare, or live in an overpriced city, etc. Hell if you move to a country with a lower cost of living, as you suggested, you'll need even less.

You would be surprised how little of what you consider "necessities" of your lifestyle you actually need, or miss when they are gone.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by nathan_f77 on Saturday February 16, 2019 @05:09PM (#19181251)
A conservative "safe withdrawal rate" is about 3.5%, so you need around $1.1M invested in index funds in order to have $40k income per year.

I'm living in Thailand, and $40k goes a long way. Many people would be happy with this lifestyle, but it's not quite enough for me, and I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life here. I'd much rather have $80-100k and live somewhere like Toronto. But to each their own.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by photoguy112 on Saturday February 16, 2019 @08:37PM (#19182091)
I'm in Japan. Last year I remitted $16k. My residence is paid for and I spent an additional $12k cash. In total, I live on 28k / year. Add in a residence if I had to rent, down where I am it's $500/mo for a 3 br "home". It's really a shanty by western standards but enough for me. On 34k if you rented, one can live comfortably in Southern Japan. Of course, this is not possible without a valid visa. I have lived in Midwest, California, Washington and visited most of US. I would still choose to live here than anywhere else. I think most Americans who have not done enough travel do not seriously consider living outside of their country (if they had the chance) just due to a mindset that America is the best place to be (hint: it's not).
Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by rbatty on Saturday February 16, 2019 @09:10PM (#19182218)
But you said it yourself: you need a visa. It's not simply a question of whether an American or anyone else finds it satisfying to live in another country. The government has to want/permit you to be there. And in the case of Japan in particular, that's a difficult situation to navigate, especially if you are looking for a place to live for your retirement years.
Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by PascLeRasc on Sunday February 17, 2019 @11:44AM (#19185310)
Can I ask what city in Japan you're in? I wouldn't expect it to be that cheap.
Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by lukas099 on Monday February 18, 2019 @03:11PM (#19193944)
I live in the DC area on $20k a year, and I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

It took me a while to build this frugal-yet-fulfilling lifestyle, but it was so worth it.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by koheripbal on Sunday February 17, 2019 @12:10PM (#19185456)
This completely ignores inflation.

By spending that 3.5% on living, you are actually losing a portion of your wealth each year.

In order to remain "flat", you need to be earning 7%, in order to spend 3.5%.

...but of course, this also completely ignores the risk. Assets don't give 7% for free. The investor is accepting the risk - that's the whole point. So in reality, you need to be earning closer to 10% in order to mitigate the risk of a default on those assets.

Living off of investment income is almost never really winning battle.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by nathan_f77 on Sunday February 17, 2019 @12:20PM (#19185529)
No, the safe withdrawal rate of 3.5% does account for inflation. The idea is that the S&P 500 should return around 7-8% per year on average. Lots of information about this in the "r/financialindependence" FAQ [1], particularly the "What about inflation?" section [2]. These results are based on the Trinity Study [3], which is also known as "the 4 percent rule." 3.5% is a more realistic withdrawal rate for a very long retirement, and 3% would be very conservative. 2.5% would almost guarantee that you die with more assets than you started with.

It's also very important to decrease your expenses during a market crash, and to never panic sell. You could also have some other income streams like rental properties, or software businesses.

If you just want to hold cash and bonds, retire at 30, and expect to live until you're 100, then you need to save up 70 * 100000 = $7 million, and spend $100k per year until you die. (Although $100k in 2089 will be worth a lot less than 2019.)

And who knows, maybe longevity treatments and gene therapies will become widely available in the next 70 years, and people might live until they are 200. Or even indefinitely. If you think that might be a possibility, then you should definitely invest in the stock market instead of keeping everything in cash. There is such a thing as "too little risk" when it comes to investing.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/wiki/faq

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/wiki/faq#wiki...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_study

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by screye on Saturday February 16, 2019 @07:47PM (#19181924)
Honestly, I am surprised that by now, places in SEA/ India haven't become retirement homes for low savings westerners.

2 people can easily live lavish life in India (something like Goa or a nice hill station) for ~$2000 a month.

Healthcare is not as bad, especially in urban locations. People speak English well, and it isn't that far, given that people drive ~10 hours across states to meet family anyways.

If no one else steals this 'idea' , I might just think of implementing it 20 years down the line.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by muzani on Saturday February 16, 2019 @09:01PM (#19182184)
Australians have been retiring in Malaysia for a while. Good food, great climate, and the professionals can find easy employment or consulting gigs if they get bored (let's face it, nobody really wants to fully retire). Living costs are moderate, but far cheaper than something like Sydney. Healthcare and dental really is world class and plenty of people speak English well.

$2000/month here is about the salary of a senior PHP engineer with 15 years experience, so it'll take you far.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by rtpg on Saturday February 16, 2019 @08:19PM (#19182015)
Moderately high personal wealth does not translate into having nice public spaces as well.

No amount of personal wealth makes a Texas suburb walkable. No amount of personal wealth makes it possible to skateboard on Tokyo sidewalks. No amount of personal wealth makes the downtown park you live next to actually be nice.

Beyond that, most places in SEA have caught on and if you have money, the society around you will figure out how to charge you enough to get it from you, especially if you're used to a pretty high standard of living

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by chrononaut on Saturday February 16, 2019 @06:31PM (#19181626)
> You need to save a few million dollars to retire with $40-$80k in investment income. It should be very possible to do this with a backend developer's salary over a period of 10-15 years,

How would a few million be possible? What is your contextual salary for this position, and their expected expenses?

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by goldenchrome on Saturday February 16, 2019 @07:00PM (#19181745)
Earn 250k on average across 15 years. This is quite conservative for FAANG. In California, you'll take home about 150k. Each year, live frugally off 50k and put away 100k in index funds. Over 15 years, you'll gain 7% real annual returns from the stock market. In 15 years you'll go from $0 to $2.5m. At a very conservative safe withdrawal rate of 3.5%, you can withdraw about 85k per year for the rest of your life.

If you're dual income for part of that 15 years, you'll have far more money, or you can retire a few years earlier.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by underwater on Saturday February 16, 2019 @07:15PM (#19181805)
You are describing an outlier of an outlier. To follow your advice our developer has to have well above average skills (250k salary would be relatively senior even at FAANG), be single and live in a share house for 15 years (50k would cover rent for a family in areas with high tech salaries, nothing else) and the tech sector has to remain strong for 15 years (looking back 2004 was 4 years before the financial crisis and generally not a great time to be staring a career in a big tech company).
Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by throwaway713 on Saturday February 16, 2019 @10:40PM (#19182552)
> 250k salary would be relatively senior even at FAANG

Not at all. I joined a FAANG company less than a year ago, am not a software engineer, and I'm at about $250k. Senior software engineers are closer to $400k-$500k. See levels.fyi.

EDIT: You mentioned salary, but I think you're referring to total comp. Base salary at these companies is indeed lower than $200k except for non-senior positions.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by underwater on Saturday February 16, 2019 @11:32PM (#19182691)
No, referring to salary.

Total comp is great and all, but unless you're liquidating immediately after you receive a grant then you're adding another variable into the mix of things that need to go right.

And the stock portion of your comp being valuable is dependent on the company doing well. True for FAANG, but that's only because by definition that group is the companies that are doing well!

A $200K equivalent RSU grant spread over four years could end up being worth 20K a year or 200K a year, depending on whether you get lucky or not. Remember that the biggest tech companies 15 years ago included Dell, Delphi, Cisco and Yahoo.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by akavi on Sunday February 17, 2019 @02:32AM (#19183170)
> unless you're liquidating immediately after you receive a grant then you're adding another variable into the mix of things that need to go right.

Why aren't you liquidating immediately after you receive a grant? Why would you choose to doubly leverage on your primary source of income, and, as you accurately point out, add another source of risk?

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by underwater on Sunday February 17, 2019 @06:52AM (#19184011)
Liquidating is the rational action, but people are not always rational. Consider the two outcomes from selling stock early:

- The company tanks. You maybe retained some of the value of your stock, but you're still on a sinking ship.

- The company takes off. Thanks to loss aversion you feel like you lost money that is rightfully yours. And your idiot co-worker who held just turned up for work in a supercar.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by goldenchrome on Saturday February 16, 2019 @09:15PM (#19182236)
I agree that it's difficult to pull this off, but it's not as difficult as you say. 250k is the total comp for someone with one promotion at FAANG, i.e. a couple years out of school. My wife and I spend about 50k a year and we live in a 1-bed in the Bay Area.

Who knows what the future holds, but if you started at FAANG in 2004 you would have far more than a couple million by now. The financial crisis is a fantastic time to invest in index funds.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by gnachman on Saturday February 16, 2019 @10:17PM (#19182491)
FAANG in 2004 paid much less in nominal terms than it does today. I was a level 5 swe at Google in 2006 and total comp was around $170k.
Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by Aeolun on Saturday February 16, 2019 @06:46PM (#19181687)
3.000.000 / 15 * 2 (50% savings rate) = $400k

That’s a bit on the high end, but I guess not SV/FAANG impossible.

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by underwater on Saturday February 16, 2019 @07:17PM (#19181816)
I don't think the IRS would be impressed with that logic.
Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by plants on Saturday February 16, 2019 @09:50PM (#19182389)
I haven't looked into this recently, but are 30-hour work weeks a thing now? With benefits and all? Last time I checked they were being piloted by a couple of companies, but it wasn't so commonplace that you could just go out and find a company offering one. I feel like you could also be cast as "lazy" (at least in American culture) if you asked for a 30-hour work week.

I dream about a 30-hour work week for all of the reasons listed in the parent article... I would take a 25% paycut for one without second thought

Re:Why I hate the weekends (2017) by pjc50 on Saturday February 16, 2019 @05:34PM (#19181364)
"Average pension pot at 55. On average those aged 55-65 currently have £105,496 saved in pensions, according to research released by Aegon in June last year": hmm.