I have tried all three, read all the HN favourites on why value pricing is the way; tried charging for roadmapping; and yet I come back to the most stressful of day-rate (hourly by any other name), unable to break this in 15 years of technical consulting.
Why? Because with per project billing I was losing 30-50% as client expectations were different to mine. When I added 30-50% to the prices, I didn't win the jobs. I could write a spec 80 pages long (which no client would pay for) and still there were variances which cost me.
On my current $50k+ project I've got the client to bear the risk because he's the worst client for cost overruns I've had, and it's on a time and materials system. However because he has no more money than the top range of estimates, and because he wants everything and more, I feel trapped and as stressed as if it was fixed price (which it's turning out to be).
It feels like I am missing something obvious that other developers/consultants have got. I want to price on value so I'm not stressed about every minute's productivity. My clients want fixed price so the risk is stacked on me; they won't/can't do sprints (often because their board of directors won't approve it, even if they say they see the benefits); and the projects are unique systems each time, so the estimation is not accurate.
I freelance/consult because it pays well, but this way of working sucks.
I'm not sure if you're missing something obvious ..this is HARD, I totally know what you're feeling like.
I was talking with a buddy other day ago (also a consultant); I was grumbling about how clients have "urgent" projects and then proceed to sit on the project proposal for a few weeks...
His response went something like this: "look, there are reason's why consultants are called in to work projects - and those reasons are not that they are well organized, well equipped, well funded ..etc etc". Oddly, that made me feel a bit better.
You might also just have the wrong clients. I've found moving upmarket reduces stinginess.
It may also be you just have trouble saying no to your clients and need to work on setting boundaries with them. You may not need them as much as you think.
That smells like a market segmentation effect where you're working in a market segment where normal is "part of how consultants make us money is by reducing their consulting fees." That's common, but not universal. The solution usually better clients. Some you will have to find (and finding good clients is harder than finding bad clients). But some existing "bad clients" will upgrade because of the relationship with you...good clients value the relationship more than price. Clients who prioritize price assume that consultants are fungible to a large degree.
You come up with the SOW and say: "This will take X months provided there are no surprises or delays, at a rate of $Y per month."
> My clients want fixed price so the risk is stacked on me...
The risk should be spread evenly. If you're bearing all the risk then it's not a good relationship.
I have done everything from formal documentation of changes, requiring pricing and sign-off for every variation, to vaguer schemes.
The change request system sucks; it loses sight of why we're building the software and turns into a war of attrition.
The issue is always they say the spec is open to interpretation and they meant this, or they expect it to work this way (which is slightly different now they see it, but in scope because every single interaction can't be specified in advance). And either way they see no reason to pay.
So it ends in arguing and bad feeling; the client has an expectation that's not met without paying more and feels it's my fault, that they're paying when they shouldn't. I've lost time and much emotional energy.
I have gone as far as to have a "What's not included" section in every contract which helps, and that if it's not mentioned specifically then to assume it's not included; but it's a non-ideal situation.
Back when I did some freelancing gigs, the general advice I got was to spec a high level, general proposal which included all the client's requirements. Broadly. Then decide on iterables, with the spec (and timeline and effort and payment) for each iterable being done prior to commencing work on it. The key being to have a working system after each update. Sound familar ;D
The client's risk investment in you not completing the project (and them being left with some obscure code and no system) is minimised. Your risk is minimized as the client actually gets to update requirements at each iteration and you get to charge depending on implementation details for those changes. And if they feel you are taking them for a ride, they have a conpleted system up to that point in time, so have the option of looking at other developers. Which also allows you to bail as well without dropping the client with an incomplete project if its not worth it continuing.
My experiences like that went well - frequent communication kept the client informed of progress, they were able to manage adjustments (cost and time to implement), and at the end of each iterable they were left with a working system (even if rudimentary in the early versions) which they could build off of things went south.
I usually got paid more out of those, and ended up doing more work for them because of the relationship built.
> Back when I did some freelancing gigs, the general advice I got was to spec a high level, general proposal which included all the client's requirements. Broadly. Then decide on iterables, with the spec (and timeline and effort and payment) for each iterable being done prior to commencing work on it. The key being to have a working system after each update. Sound familar ;D
This is exactly how I want to work! The pushback I get is that the company's board of directors won't sign off on a project where the total cost isn't known.
I have explained all in your third paragraph, and even when the manager/CTO/CEO 'gets' this, the board don't. Because it's beyond their understanding as non-technical, and sounds like being taken for a ride (and I get it; if my garage did this, I would expect I was being fleeced).
This is what I need to break-through.
Clients don't like it as much of course, but the we can do is convince them that it fits the way that everyone works better -- nobody knows exactly what they want up front, and if they do, then they're wrong because as soon as they get to use the thing the never existed before, they'll discover things that don't feel right and they'll want to change them.
But working (and billing) in weekly Sprints seems to work very well once you've convinced your client that the framework is the right way to do it. Client want a quote, but we tell them we can't really give them any sort of estimate until we see how they work (with us). So, a two week trial period is often a good way to get that going.
I like the idea of a trial period. Get them on-board with low risk to them. As this pattern of working is exactly what I want but can't get clients to do (see my reply to your sibling commenter).
A difficulty is they invariably say the last agency/project did fixed price, so do any others they're talking to, so even if your results are good why aren't you.
They don't feel safe, and it's that safety I need to give back to them.
I have one sticking point I'd love to hear what the HN crowd does to deal with it.
I'm freelancing and I find gigs that are long-term via recruiters / LinkedIn. And never directly with companies. While the pay is high, the feeling is I'm just another employee, except temp.
How do you market your skills directly with firms, and where do you go, if you're not the 'social media broadcaster' type who's on Twitter / etc. all day? I DO have people skills, I DON'T spend any time doing presentations at tech conferences or blasting myself on Twitter / social media. Do you partner with a marketing type? Or become that type?
How do individuals compete against recruiters? Why would this marketing person take a few grand from me, when they can be a recruiter and take 20-40% + of my rate for doing nothing but the intro?
We offer cybersecurity services and due diligence for financial institutions, healthcare and acquirers, so it's a pretty specialized target market.
On top of the weekly invoices, I also created "subscription" invoices, which I charge automatically instead of waiting for invoices. It really was killing me last few years. I don't even want to check last year's lost invoices...
I am curious how you transitioned into a product. How did you validate your product?
I "Flintstoned" my small SAAS with automated monthly Freshbooks invoices until I had the time and money to get Stripe properly integrated. It meant we could get paying customers from day one with one less programming/integration headache to worry about.
Stripe alone can take care of it. Subscription or any type of recurring invoice system would be sufficient enough to stop collecting the check. Although, it comes with nearly 3% fee, which is fine because I see it as "what if I couldn't collect one of these invoices". That 3% really doesn't hurt much at the end of the year as long as you collected 100% of your invoices. Missing 2-3 invoices can truly hurt though.
When it comes to products do you have any thoughts on competing with big players? I have a few now, I am hoping being local will get me in the door and make the client more comfortable with me than a website offering it as SaaS.
My advice for consultants / freelancers. Setting yourself up as a general company with a name goes a long way. Not as John Doe consulting. Some larger companies don't like throwing money at a self employed consultant. If you show up as Compu-Global-Hyper-Mega-Net they treat you differently. Also people skills is spot on. Even if you do have people skills, it can help a ton to have a sales guy working for you as well.
My projects usually last a month or two, sometimes longer. Smaller businesses with smaller teams seem a lot more accepting of weekly invoices. It becomes a line item for them, just an expense among many (this is my guess).
In terms of products, I am not qualified enough, but if I had to guess, it's best not to compete with the mega SaaS. Position differently and find a unique niche that won't necessarily make you super rich.
As for naming, that's an interesting point. I don't know if it's true as I've seen consultants go by their name and make a lot of money. Some people simply build a brand out of their name and become well known for the work they do. Sadly, I don't have a brandable name so I went with a business name. I think there is some truth to your point when it comes to being seen as a company to do business with than "hiring a consultant".
I started on Upwork. It was a bitch. Upwork is known for low quality, but I didn't have any choice. I just tried doing as best as I could for everyone I dealt with and that seemed to manifest into a 100% rating, which led to even more contacts. At one point some of the clients weren't so terrible. I think the first year I did 40k, much much lower than the salary I had, but it was enough to pay the bills. I also moved to a much more affordable area so it helped.
Having 100% rating on upwork lead to agency work. Agencies are great, if you do good work they often have a steady workload for you. You know what comes and when and can schedule more time to work on other projects, thus upping your income. If you are a developer working with an agency, this can be very rewarding if your charge your worth. I am a designer and our industry naturally caps what people think I am worth. It sucks.
At one point I was doing well enough that new clients I was taking on were willing to pay per project. It was super hard and scary, but I said bye to agency work except for 1 agency where I befriended the CEO. Per project work was really nice, but I learned quickly that if you can't sell your value (which I couldn't at the time as a "designer" and just lacked experience in this area), it can be difficult to close larger quote projects. People are just scared of large numbers. Tell someone they should pay you 50k and they run away (I am sure that other's experience may differ and people don't mind paying them that sum). I tried a bunch of things, price anchoring, huge fancy proposals.. yada yada. What happened is that I was getting burned out on huge fancy proposals and not getting anything out of them and that was the breaking point. I figured, I am done with proposals, from now on I get people on the phone, talk to them, and if they don't agree at the end of the call then I won't put any more effort. THIS WORKED.
Now the process is simple: Schedule a call, we talk, I ask you about your BUSINESS problem and offer you a business solution. No talk of design. No talk of development. What is it that is costing you money or not making you money? Let's change that.
As far as new work it's 100% referrals at the moment. However, I know that this can't last forever and at some point I will burn out (I already feel this after 3 years). My goal is a product or a product-service (have someone else do the work I offer at a reduced scope for a cheaper price). I have read about several people here on HN doing this and making a killing (by my definition). This is what I look forward to next, but it has not been easy. As a side note: if anyone is running a product service or a SaaS and started in a similar fashion, I'd love to hear from you!
The article conflates "freelancing" with "charging hourly." The problems it outlines mostly go away when you do value-based pricing, paid weekly, monthly, or even quarterly.
The main downside is not clear project requirements, scope creep and you said / I said issues.
One way I found very helpful in mitigating it is getting a prototype of the UI, with some comments about what's unseen.
Getting an "idea to prototype" thing done is not expensive in context of any 25k+ projects and gains are huge on both sides.
I currently use a timer app and bill my exact working hours. It's great because when the weather is nice and I want to go sailing or cycling, I just stop the timer and go.
I have a set monthly salary I want to make. If I'm on track to hit it, no pressure to work. If I'm behind, then I'll put in hours.
Then there is the consultant. The person who realized that time does not equal money, that businesses pay for value, or more importantly, they want to know how much money this is going to save/make them. The consultant charges for value, at a markup. The top of the ladder make over a mil a year, the ones still learning can make very good sums of money, but its all limited by them. If they don't do the work, the money stops. This is a great place to be, but you quickly learn that you don't want to be stuck here, unless you are the top tier consultant and you love your work and don't mind the day in day out. I have not heard of too many of these, but they usually turn into product businesses well before reaching that.
If there is one thing any aspiring freelancer needs to know is that their mind is their worst enemy. Overcome your mind and you can go a lot further. I was and still am a victim of my own mind and work on overcoming it.
The consultant is embedded in an existing team and either building some niche portion of the product OR providing some sort of training. "Hi, I need a website that does X, we're only qualified to build subset Y, here's $20k to build the remained OR train us to build the remainder."
In terms of happiness, freelancing definitely comes in flavors. There is the grunt work, the highly paid freelancer, the consultant and the product-based business until you go full startup or large company. I have seen all tiers. Currently I am a step short of having my own product while I figure out what that will be. You definitely need business acumen and people skills to succeed in the consultant stage. For product business you gotta go a step beyond that and either do really well as a consultant to bootstrap, or just work your ass off to get it going. My advice for anyone in freelancing now, who does not have people skills and gets latched onto hourly work, you may want to reconsider your choices. Freelancing can be highly stressful and demoralizing, unless you take the steps to go into consulting or beyond. It's a ladder, just like your corporate gig, you gotta do the work to move up or suffer where you are stuck.