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Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by deadalus on Saturday February 09, 2019 @11:45AM (#19123210)
> the drama it caused is way overblown

People have been arrested because of Reddit posts they made. If the admins can edit comments without any indication to the users... They can falsely accuse you of a crime. They can also identify you and ban you specially if you do or say things not in alignment with the founders of Reddit(criticizing Serina Williams got a subreddit banned recently).

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by Anechoic on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:55PM (#19123592)
criticizing Serina Williams got a subreddit banned recently

Sincere question: Was it actually criticism of Serena Williams ("she exhibited poor behavior", "she's lost a step", "her fashion sense sucks", etc) or was it abuse ("she's a man", "she's an ugly pig", etc)?

Banning because of the former is unacceptable, but I see no reason why we would expect her husband to permit the latter on his platform.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by cotelletta on Saturday February 09, 2019 @10:56PM (#19126290)
Talking shit about people behind their back is not abuse. At most it can be libel/slander, of which none of your examples qualify. She's also not a particularly worthy example, given her meltdown at that tennis tournament, for which tons of people tried to made ideological excuses (herself included) and which involved her actually being abusive to the ref's face.

What it is is rich and powerful people using their influence to step on the little guy, and that behavior trickling down in a bizarre quest for faux-vindication by petty commissars. The kind of person who wants to be a Reddit mod on a big subreddit is not your average Joe. If they're not outright getting paid under the table by interested actors, they're doing it for the power trip.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by Anechoic on Sunday February 10, 2019 @11:45AM (#19128480)
Interesting comments, but I'm not sure what it has to do with my post.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by lstodd on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:09PM (#19123991)
Maybe because this was not the way he marketed his platform in the first place? Or, well, not marketed, but, let's say, allowed widespread perception of.

Although I must confess I'm no expert on Reddit. After all, real men discuss Serena on 4chan and post gun videos on Pornhub /s

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by IvyMike on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:01PM (#19123315)
> If the admins can edit comments without any indication to the users...

I feel like this is possible on every website ever made.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by beaner on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:07PM (#19123360)
But in how many cases has a CEO of a multi-million-user site done it themselves, off the cuff? It means there's no oversight. Oversight isn't expected if you're using Joe Schmoe's 2 person game forum. It's expected at Reddit.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by strathmeyer on Saturday February 09, 2019 @03:29PM (#19124404)
No one tell this guy about Fark. It's always unclear which propagandists are the ones blowing this out of proportion.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by throwaway2048 on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:09PM (#19123370)
CEO asks underlings for access to production servers, for whatever reason.

How many are going to say no?

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by phamilton on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:29PM (#19123476)
Who would say yes?

If the company is public, all of this is covered under SOX compliance or other regulations. If you're truly going to get fired by the CEO for not complying, better that than be the one thrown under the bus when the SEC (or other gov body) comes knocking.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by lostlogin on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:53PM (#19123585)
Did regulators come knocking? If so, I wasn’t aware of that and it isn’t mention in the write ups I’ve seen.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by nradov on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:27AM (#19126884)
SOX compliance is about financial systems, not about some random discussion forum.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by phamilton on Sunday February 10, 2019 @02:56PM (#19129631)
It's very much about access to production data, in addition to financial systems.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by IvyMike on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:33PM (#19124104)
> I feel like this is possible on every website ever made.

Idea: Reddit, but the comments are a blockchain.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by zeroDivisible on Saturday February 09, 2019 @06:51PM (#19125469)
What if someone drops a comment with a link to child porn?

Don't get me wrong, as much as I support the idea of no censorship, there's always a need for a janitor to clean somebody's graffiti on the wall. In an online world, those janitors tend to abuse their power though.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by gdhbcc on Sunday February 10, 2019 @08:17AM (#19127657)
Bits are bits are bits
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by Gaelan on Saturday February 09, 2019 @06:39PM (#19125424)
Don’t need that, just signed messages.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by skybrian on Saturday February 09, 2019 @01:01PM (#19123630)
This is another way of saying that the power to edit other people's posts is pretty darn scary. Which it is. But other than one vivid demonstration, it seems it's potential, not actual? A violation of trust, but not repeated?

What could anyone do about it, other than promising not to do it again? I guess there could be some kind of certificate transparency thing? Other people could make copies of messages and verify that they haven't changed?

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by frogpelt on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:19PM (#19123419)
Perhaps the problem in that case is the government overstepping it's responsibilities.

I firmly believe people should be held responsible for what they say and do but there has to be freedom to say things that are offensive or scary or there's no protection for any speech.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by intopieces on Saturday February 09, 2019 @11:51AM (#19123253)
That moderators can edit posts on Reddit throws into question the validity of state actors using it as evidence to arrest people but doesn't make it any more dangerous than it was from the start.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by ddingus on Saturday February 09, 2019 @11:56AM (#19123282)
Moderators cannot edit posts. An admin can, and when done with the official tool, the edit is marked, known.

What bothered people was spez editing the actual database, no timestamp, etc...

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by krapp on Saturday February 09, 2019 @11:58AM (#19123292)
I would assume state actors would need something more than a screenshot of a Reddit post to make a case either way.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by zhengyi13 on Saturday February 09, 2019 @01:39PM (#19123818)
Keep in mind that now two states have proposed laws that would require inspection of the social media accounts of any potential gun purchaser.

There's zero specification in either law around oversight into or appeal of any decision to disallow a gun purchase on the basis of what the reviewer finds.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by krapp on Saturday February 09, 2019 @05:00PM (#19124915)
Fair enough, but have they passed and survived judicial challenges, though?

A proposed law isn't a law, after all. Anyone can propose anything.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by throwaway2048 on Saturday February 09, 2019 @11:50AM (#19123241)
Admins are always 100% going to be capable of editing posts on a website, after all they can just edit the database.

This "proof" they have the ability to do that somehow signaling danger is nothing short of ridiculous.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by isoskeles on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:12PM (#19123385)
A site / business / organization gets big enough, they usually start locking down database access. Even a technical CEO shouldn’t have the ability to go into a database and edit comments on a site like reddit (specifically of its size). If they want the ability to edit a comment’s body, they should have a tool for it.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by ddingus on Saturday February 09, 2019 @11:58AM (#19123294)
No it is not. Users need to know the conversation is coherent. Real.

Reddit is not always casual chat.

There is hide, delete and edit with a clear history for all involved.

Touching the database changes the record of reality without leaving history of it happening.

The database edit is what drove the spez controversy.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by throwaway2048 on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:03PM (#19123322)
Again, this is always possible, its possible on HN, its possible on gmail, its possible on every single site on the internet, that is how the technology works.

This isn't some kind of dark secret backdoor spez built into the reddit codebase. Immature and stupid action maybe, but some kind of scary sentinel of how admin power can be uniquely abused at reddit, it isn't.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by kps on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:28PM (#19123469)
It's not always possible — secure audit trails can exist. The web cowboy world just doesn't care.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by throwaway2048 on Saturday February 09, 2019 @01:18PM (#19123719)
Its not possible to build a technical system that those building it can not themselves subvert if they so choose.

The argument here isn't if he should have did it, he obviously shouldn't have. The argument is about how incredibly overdone the outrage over the specific circumstances is.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by ddingus on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:09PM (#19123368)
And again, being possible is not the issue.

Of course it is possible.

That it was done, and why is a big issue.

And it did not need to be done, nor that way.

A direct edit can make sense, and when it does, there is also every reason to communicate why.

The why of what spez did is a significant contributor to the controversy. Lack of a record and no communication, until forced is another significant contributor.

Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by threatofrain on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:16PM (#19123405)
This is also the same argument people make about evidence from seized hard drives, but nobody cares.
Re:Reddit's user uprising against China because Tencent will... by ddingus on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:21PM (#19123432)
Well, making it without proof is a shallow defense.

People do care. And this is a basic trust problem inherent to computing.

Ever notice how there is often redundancy and history present?

This is why.

Another place this shows up is electronic voting. Lack of personally identifiable records leave people in a position of forced trust, unable to know the record is accurate.

Motive plays a role here.

Spez had a childish, bigger dick type ego motive. Untrustworthy.

The same exact thing done to protect someone, and done with rational communication would be far less controversial.

As for the hard drive, the defense must speak to motive and it must be compelling, or we are all likely to trust the person doing that necessary work.

Your comparison is germane, but too simple, in my view.