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Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by gyaniv on Friday February 08, 2019 @04:48AM (#19112790)
I really doubt that it was done by a US government entity. Trump is the president and all, but to hack and release (by a third party) the personal information if a citizen (not suspected or related to any crime) seems to me to be something that even Trump or his supporters can't do, the intelligence agencies just wouldn't do it in my opinion.

The Saudis seem like a much more likely party to do it in my opinion, mostly because we know they are willing to do a lot worse against people they oppose (or who oppose them).

That being said, I also think that playing the "A government hacked my phone" is a much better play on behalf of Bezos then claiming it was done by someone accessing his or Sanchezs phone (for example her brother who is supposedly a Trump supporter, like the link in the end suggests).

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by cstross on Friday February 08, 2019 @07:04AM (#19113438)
Nuh-huh.

What happens is something approximately like this:

Saudi military intelligence puts through a request via appropriate channels to the Five Eyes for a tap on some low-profile woman's phone, claiming it's necessary in pursuit of a counter-terrorism objective. This ends up with GCHQ rather than NSA (NSA spies on Brits, Brits spy on Americans, they work at adjacent desks and share info: this is the traditional work-around for laws banning domestic spying) who happily hand over the contents of a foreign POIs phone to an allied intel agency.

Nobody at any senior level has a clue what's going on under cover of surveillance: stuff like this happens thousands of times a day. Meanwhile, the Saudi officer in charge of the kompromat on Bezos now has the dodgy photos off his girlfriend's phone ...

If GCHQ doesn't work, route through some other allied SIGINT agency with cooperation via NSA, preferably in a country where the Khashoggi thing is just another "foreigners doing horrible things to each other" back page story and nobody has a clue about Jeff Bezos' divorce.

TLDR: the global war on terror has given us a global hairball of inter-tangled intelligence sharing arrangements, and these can be manipulated for pleasure and profit by any sufficiently corrupt party who is plugged in to it.

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by AndrewKemendo on Friday February 08, 2019 @08:40AM (#19113975)
No this is just a total fabrication of how things work. Please don't do this.
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by MaupitiBlue on Friday February 08, 2019 @09:25AM (#19114347)
How many articles have you read about rogue Stingrays around DC? If the FCC wanted to take these down it would take 45 minutes of triangulation, but they never do it. Instead we get vague statements about the devious Chinese.

It’s hard to conclude that five eyes isn’t a domestic spying proxy program.

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by AndrewKemendo on Friday February 08, 2019 @11:22AM (#19115681)
There are many reasons why these devices persist not only in DC but all across the country.

One is resource management and risk evaluation (aka, there are bigger problems), another is knowledge of FIS operations and many others...

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by jessaustin on Friday February 08, 2019 @11:32AM (#19115818)
We got from "total fabrication" to "resource management" pretty quickly...
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by AndrewKemendo on Friday February 08, 2019 @11:43AM (#19115976)
Incorrect inference.

You've incorrectly attributed the argument from a specific offshoot (that foreign spy tools persist because of limited counterintelligence resources) and applied it to the root supposition (that nation states utilize parallel construction, through a conspiracy with known adversaries as a matter of course and that spy infrastructure is built specifically for that purpose).

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by jessaustin on Friday February 08, 2019 @12:01PM (#19116224)
I would quibble with "known adversaries". Saudi has been a close ally of both UK and USA for nearly 30 years. Haven't Snowden's materials proved the point for the rest of the root supposition already?

Of course it's more likely that someone (anyone, really) just pwned Ms. Sanchez's phone directly.

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by creaghpatr on Friday February 08, 2019 @08:49AM (#19114045)
That seems to be a plausible explanation. Can you refute the argument besides just calling it BS? Otherwise, it's an interesting theory.
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by lunchables on Friday February 08, 2019 @08:59AM (#19114104)
No Five Eyes member is going to randomly tap some US citizens phone because the Saudis asked without some serious investigation.
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by cstross on Friday February 08, 2019 @11:45AM (#19116010)
The Saudis are positioned as our allies in the war on terror. More accurately, they're regional enemies of Iran, and the western powers tend to run on the rubric "the enemy of my enemy is my ally" (even when a closer look at the situation would suggest that just ain't so).

They are huge customers for British arms sales (look up the Al Yamamah deal — roughly US $100Bn in business). They're known to have bought surveillance and intelligence monitoring software from Israel. They're in everybody's back pockets, and in their wallets.

As a Brit, I find your belief that US citizens are immune from monitoring by the intelligence services of other nations (when that kind of money is passing hands) touching ...

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by lunchables on Friday February 08, 2019 @02:01PM (#19117541)
>The Saudis are positioned as our allies in the war on terror.

As are a lot of countries. Does not mean we will allow surveillance without any questions.

>As a Brit, I find your belief that US citizens are immune from monitoring by the intelligence services of other nations (when that kind of money is passing hands) touching ...

I never said or implied that.

Read the comment again:

>No Five Eyes member is going to randomly tap some US citizens phone because the Saudis asked without some serious investigation.

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by sgt101 on Friday February 08, 2019 @07:21AM (#19113505)
No no no. The UK has laws that facilitate surveillance of its citizens. The UK spying on US citizens in the USA is something that I would put into a risk category two (more??) orders of magnitude above brexit or suez. I'm sorry, but it would be lunatic recklessness, and to what advantage?
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by cstross on Friday February 08, 2019 @07:36AM (#19113583)
UKUSA treaty: goes back to 1945, GCHQ is used by the NSA as a convenient work-around for restrictions on domestic surveillance. This was all documented by James Bamford in his histories of the NSA, "Inside the Puzzle Palace" and "Body of Secrets".

(You're looking at the present-day for context, but these agencies run on protocols that have built up over many decades, dating back to the Cold War.)

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by ncmncm on Friday February 08, 2019 @10:28AM (#19115058)
Hi Charlie! It's getting increasing difficult for fiction to stay ahead of reality.

I would welcome your conjectures on how the spooks controlled Obama. His enduring legacy may be heavy use of the Espionage Act to prosecute whistleblowers, and a radical expansion of "death from the sky", which seem incompatible with his personality, creating a mystery: What leverage did/do the spooks have on him?

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by cstross on Friday February 08, 2019 @11:37AM (#19115905)
I'm pretty sure they didn't need it.

My read on BHO is that as a non-white guy super-achieving in a quietly racist political climate (we've subsequently had a refresher course in American racial politics: it never went away) he was at pains to avoid alienating factions that might work against him.

He was also a lawyer: not just any lawyer, but a former editor of the Harvard Law Review (a plum niche reserved for star pupils at the #1 law school in the United States, often an early sign that the individual is on the road to the Supreme Court). Instead of heading for the bench Obama went into politics, but he is above all else a legalist (and a constitutional expert). As such, he worked only within the established legal frameworks, carefully trying to build a platform for incremental adjustments.

The Espionage Age was already a feature of the system before he arrived in the Oval Office: he continued to use it as it was designed. He didn't rock the boat or try to impose a radical agenda on the DoJ. He wouldn't do anything that might give his enemies a lever against him. He was, in fact, a conservative politician: not "conservative" in the sense of Movement Conservativism (which is actually a very radical political platform), but a Burkean conservative.

The spooks didn't need leverage on him: he was theirs from the outset.

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by semi-extrinsic on Friday February 08, 2019 @07:40AM (#19113602)
GP is saying the UK tells the US "Hey, we're gonna spy on your citizens", and the US says "Okidoki, just make sure to pass us the data you collect". And vice versa.
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by notfromhere on Friday February 08, 2019 @10:27AM (#19115049)
They don't just give the Saudi's an unfiltered tap into five eyes surveillance. This is just spreading misinformation
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by gdubs on Friday February 08, 2019 @10:27AM (#19115052)
Except Lauren Sanchez is a fairly well known news anchor, and not “some low profile woman”, unless I’m reading you wrong?
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by oligopoly on Friday February 08, 2019 @05:45AM (#19113034)
What usually happens in these kind of things is mistress or partner shares images with friends and someone looks to profit or take vengeance behalf of cheated friend. I'm baffled nobody brings this up.
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by crispyambulance on Friday February 08, 2019 @02:10PM (#19117620)
Yeah, like "the fappening", for christ's sake, it doesn't have to be a "state actor"!
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by jessaustin on Saturday February 09, 2019 @08:42PM (#19125904)
We mustn't forget, the War Media is always agitating for more military action. "State actor" gets them a lot closer to their goal than "fat dude in his mom's basement".
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by greendesk on Friday February 08, 2019 @05:13AM (#19112909)
>>Trump is the president and all, but to hack and release (by a third party) the personal information if a citizen (not suspected or related to any crime) seems to me to be something that even Trump or his supporters can't doTrump is the president and all, but to hack and release (by a third party) the personal information if a citizen (not suspected or related to any crime) seems to me to be something that even Trump or his supporters can't do, the intelligence agencies just wouldn't do it in my opinion.

For me it checks out - leaking informations sounds like something that Trump or his supporters would do. Why would not they, if they have the option to? Per the intelligence agencies - are you sure that they are a single entity, where people are of uniform opinion? And every single person follows law to the letter of it? There is the example that those services employed Snowden - if the services were so organised as to avoid such hacks, we would not have heard of Snowden.

Sure, Sanchez' phone might have had leaks in it... but it is just as plausible as a government officials (US or non-US) accessing his phone.

Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by JoeSmithson on Friday February 08, 2019 @06:03AM (#19113122)
It's somewhat plausible that an NSA employee might leak Bezos's nudes, it is not plausible that a US agency would hack his phone.
Re:No Thank You, Mr. Pecker by gyaniv on Friday February 08, 2019 @05:56AM (#19113087)
There's a chance I'm mostly just being hopeful, and you're right in both that Trump would totally support doing something like that, and that the intelligence agencies aren't a single entity.

>>For me it checks out - leaking informations sounds like something that Trump or his supporters would do. Why would not they, if they have the option to? Per the intelligence agencies - are you sure that they are a single entity, where people are of uniform opinion? And every single person follows law to the letter of it? There is the example that those services employed Snowden - if the services were so organised as to avoid such hacks, we would not have heard of Snowden.

But from my experience in other government entities, I believe that doing something like hacking into someone's phone, would require approval and support from high enough officials in those organizations, and so far it seems that these organization do still seem to remain professional and not involved in political actions by the president.

I agree that there might be (and I'm assuming there are) private Trump supporters in those agencies, that for example, would do 'a Snowden' and release classified and private information that they shouldn't. But that information first needs to gathered, and I don't think Jeff Bezos has done something to warrant previous gathering of information about him. (If information about Trump for example is released this way, it would seem more likely to me, because we know they collected that information while thinking he might be a spy).

But once again, I hope I'm not just being hopefully optimistic in my trust of 'the system'.